351W - which year ?

[Beagle]

they appear to have gone up on the 351 lowers:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-LIGHTNI...be00b7&vxp=mtr

375.00 for another one on Ebay. The beauty is you can put a Explorer top on it for 100.00
There are other options that will be more cost effective... even saw a thread on porting the truck lower to match a Holley Systemax upper. The trucks didn't have hood clearance issues, so as I remember it, the uppers on a truck are taller. Get it with the whole deal would be my suggestion if you want EFI, who knows, it may fit. A 351 with a GT40 won't fit under a Fox hood, need about 1.5" of scoop minimum. I'm not sure how that translates to Cougar, since they put FE's in them and 385's (429,460) in Mustangs. It may well fit.

Ironically, the 302 HO manifold is a better truck manifold than the truck manifold, and the truck manifold was reportedly, for a brief moment in time, the hot ticket for a 302. Weird, huh.

[langleylad]

You may remember the ebay Mustang that Rad Rides built . They put a 351w in an early Mustang and used a GT40 intake . They made it fit and I remember how ( I have the DVD of Rides ) .

[Beagle]

What Milner was saying is we think the truck manifolds are taller than the GT40. I'm still thinking they put the GT40'd 351 into ski boats, so a boat boneyard may be a worthwhile place to look for them as well.

Come to think of it - that'd be a good potential place for a whole engine maybe... The marine guys are pretty proud of their junk though. That "special cam" in the boat is the same cam they put in the Lightning... lol.

I got tickled when I started looking - "My dad's Vortec sounds different than my GT40" conversations. I thought, you know, that may be why I started liking Mustangs, and why the sound of an LS with Flowmasters reminded me of a 5.0 (same firing order).

Oh- sorry, I keep saying Hurricane from Pro Products, I think it's Typhoon for the dual plane. Sorry for the mis-information. The Hurricane is the single plane. I confused them.

[DanStokes]

I have a '96 5.8 in my '88 Stang. As you probably know, the 302/5.0 lower WILL NOT fit on the 5.8. I went with a Trick Flo intake and it's a nice piece. You might find one on Racingjunk or Epay. My build is sort of weird as the car is fully emissions-compliant (EGR, cats, etc.) but with an AOD and 3:55 gear in a convert body (heavy) it runs high 13s low 14s. I agree with keeping the EFI as it runs SO sweet. Get at least the engine harness when you harvest the engine - makes things simpler.

I don't know what headers fit the Cougar but I made a mistake with shorties on the 'Stang. One of those things I'd do over.

Dan

[langleylad]

Under the hood of a 68 Cougar is the same as a 68 Mustang as well as the front suspension . So any header built for a Mustang will work for me .

[milner351]

if you want to run long tube headers - I would stay away from the P heads - they are tougher to find headers for - and always more $$$.
With shock towers, I much prefer tri - y headers for a mild build.

[langleylad]

What may I ask are "p" heads ?

[Beagle]

What may I ask are "p" heads ?

GT40P heads from a late model (mid97) up Explorer. You'd have to drill them to fit on a 351 anyway. The early 97 and 96 Explorers had GT40 heads ala the Cobra. They have 7/16 bolt holes and are about 30 hp better than E7te's. The GT40p's had revised spark plug angles and it jacks header selection. The plugs hit the headers on a bunch of them. Long tube 4-1 headers fit a lot of times but you still wind up with wire / plug hassles sometimes.

I'd go with any aluminum head over a GT40 whatever personally, but if you get a 351 with GT40's from a lightning or a boat, they're worth looking for.

[Huskinhano]

I'm going to be using P heads on my next motor for my 66. While it doesn't pertain to a Fox platform here are a couple pix to get the idea. Luckily for me, off the shelf MAC long tubes fit! The P head has a very efficient chamber that only need 28* total timing and from magazine articles back in the day seem to be good for about 350-380 HP in stock form. The top head is a E7.

[langleylad]

GT40"P" ! I remember now , it's been a while since I've played with Fords . Besides the countless hours I've spent scrapping , cutting , welding , grinding , sanding etc .... on the Cougar .

[langleylad]

Another question , is the exhaust manifold bolt pattern ( dimensions ) the same on the say 1996,97,98 etc as heads from say 1968,69 etc ? . I guess what I'm getting at is would headers built for a 68 Cougar w 351w fit a 90s 351w ? . PS thanks guys for time and info .

[Beagle]

Another question , is the exhaust manifold bolt pattern ( dimensions ) the same on the say 1996,97,98 etc as heads from say 1968,69 etc ? . I guess what I'm getting at is would headers built for a 68 Cougar w 351w fit a 90s 351w ? . PS thanks guys for time and info .

yes - pretty much all stock to mid level performance Windsor heads are the same bolt pattern and exhaust port location and shape. High end race junk might have a different header flange arrangement or a raised port, but everything normal mortal SBF folk might have is the same.

The bitch kitty that Tom showed nicely is the GT40p plug angle difference. I'll see if I have one where I can show you the hell no it won't fit period plug->equal length shorty MAC header interference with them. I have a set of Mustang 65'ish tri-y's, I may see how the look just for fun. As soon as I can reach them. lol.

What Tom might mention is the need for right angle spark plug boots that I bet he has to use.

In the bottom picture you can see where it says GTP on the casting - there's your sign! lol. There are a couple of casting identifiers, they also have 4 bars on the end of the head.

[Russell]

I have mac long tube headers on my P heads. They fit good, i am using 90* boots and have to use wrench on the socket to change a couple plugs. But the headers where only $220. So its worth the trouble. I do like shorties better, you dont have to take them off to pull the motor. Not sure how much extra power long tubes make?

Oh i think the shorties on the LX P heads are dynotech. They fit with 90* boots

[Huskinhano]

I don't have the motor in or the heads on the motor either. Heads are still in the boxes. It may be a pain but as Russell said it can be worth while. Look at the bright side, with electronic ignition you're going many, many miles between plug changes at least on a street motor.

What to look for; the tubes have to come out straight out about 1.5" and you should be able to get a socket on the rear bolt on each tube. If the tube curves right away over the tube, no go. Beagle, I can tell you the try-y's aren't going to work on the P's.

[Beagle]

I don't have the motor in or the heads on the motor either. Heads are still in the boxes. It may be a pain but as Russell said it can be worth while. Look at the bright side, with electronic ignition you're going many, many miles between plug changes at least on a street motor.

What to look for; the tubes have to come out straight out about 1.5" and you should be able to get a socket on the rear bolt on each tube. If the tube curves right away over the tube, no go. Beagle, I can tell you the try-y's aren't going to work on the P's.

Yeah, I think I tried the Tri-y's already but don't have a picture of how bad it is. The spaghetti bowl shorties are FWAP right into the plug won't tighten up bad. I think the tri-y's were the same. On my F150, the 99.00 Summit long tubes worked, 5 and 6 took a 90* boot and wires under the pipes. Be carefule they don't get loose, they'll lay right against the primary if you let them.

Russell, you're giving up a LOT - above 2200 or so, a 28-32 inch primary will wipe the floor with a shorty. Like 15-20hp. on a stockish 302 with 1 5/8 pipe at max HP. That's a lot to give up on a 300 hp mill to my way of thinking. Below 2200 ish or somewhere around there, the Shorties actually have it. In fact, at idle to there, the stock exhaust may well outdo them all.

back when I cared, the equal length shorties were 7-8 hp better than the unequal shorties according to my sacred magazines. I bought into that - man o man, what a disaster. I should have, in retrospect, got long tubes and an h-pipe. Equal length SBF shorties are as bad as small block chevy headers on an air conditioned car to tighten.

Tom's pictures above for the 65ish MAC headers on the P-head, or conventional head either way, I could live with that. We cruise above 2200 RPM most of the time so I wouldn't sweat the small difference below that.

I'd still walk away from the GT40p if there was a set of GT40's next to them, and save my lunch money for a set of AFR's or Edelbrocks or Holleys or Canfields or... there's a million cheap GOOD aluminum heads... and lose the 40 pounds and pick up 50+ HP... The GT40p is good if you want an extra .2-.5 of compression (GT40's are nominal 64cc, GT40p is nominal 59cc) but the exhaust is a bit of hassle.

The E7te's that are on truck motors can be ported to perform very respectably. If you are on uber-tight budget look up Thumper of Orange Park and see if you can find the porting templates that used to be out on the web. He was getting damn good HP numbers from stock heads. I wouldn't turn a set of his junk down if I found them for cheap.

ah, yeah, something else I didn't think would be that way but is - The 351 lower on a truck is very different from the 302 truck lower. On a 302 truck lower, it looks a lot like a Holley SystemMAX. The runners on a truck lower on a 351 are shaped a lot more like the stock HO 302 intake. I don't know of any custom uppers besides the Edelbrock ($$$). To get an idea of what I'm talking about, go to O'reilly and have them pull a plenum gasket for a 351 in a 96 F250, then a 302 in a 95 F150 and compare the two. The 302 looks like drunken squares, the 351 is an oval. Not the 302 size oval, sadly. The GT40/cobra stuff is round.

TMoss still does a bunch of intake porting. You can realize some pretty inexpensive and fairly impressive gains for not a lot of coin. You might email him and ask him about the 351 manifold, he may know if they will fit, or if you can cut some of the height out of it. Depending on if it will fit, cutting an inch out of the height on the truck manifold and porting the lower might be a decent deal. The last time I mailed him (Think it's like [email protected] ?? try that in a query.) he was very responsive and forthcoming with information.


I had given that some serious thought at one point but decided a converted Victor Jr. would be a better plan. If you are making enough torque to have problems hooking it up, the Victor Jr. moves the curve up in the RPM range and might be of benefit. You lose down low, but pick up huge at speed. It's a balancing act like everything else.