62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

[Russell]

hm - russell - that sucks! There's one vote for putting the drums back on the rear - keep the granada master and prop valve...hm.


The rotors are aftermarket units with two lug patterns - I had to move the studs from the 5 x 4.75" holes to the 5 x 4.5" holes to fit my Ford wheels. The 8.8 has the 5 x 4.5 - same wheels on all four corners (vintage 5 spokes) The new 5 spoke summit wheels will have the drag tires on them.

I guess I am saying try to find out what you need, will a prop valve fix it. Will it need a new master? I drove it for years like that it stopped OK just, felt like the fronts were doing more work work than they should. I think its the general consensus that disc need more fluid volume than drums.

As light as that car is it might not matter. I don't have any test data just how it felt your mileage may very.

[cantvalve16]

John, I am not sure if this means anything to your seat situation, but here goes. I just finished mounting 2001 Mustang seats in my '66 Mustang using stock '66 Mustang seat tracks. All it required was the rear holes in the seats to be redrilled to fit the old seat tracks and some spacers to stand the seat off the tracks a little.
I am wondering if the stock Falcon seat tracks (for buckets) might have the same relationship to your Mark 8 seats. If not, I bet they will to your 5.0 seats for your backup plan.

[cantvalve16]

Also, I have been thinking about your time available for working on the car. Since I am in the same boat as far as getting some
"car" time, I thought I might share my general strategy with you.

While working on a total car rebuild, I like to have 3 subprojects going on at any given time. For instance, I am currently working on finishing the seat mounting, floorpan cleanup, and trying to clean up the dashboard. I will not start another sub project until one of those is completed to my satisfaction.

Three subprojects keeps me from being stuck with nothing to do because of a parts hold up, paint drying, or just being stumped. If I cannot go any further on one, I move to another. Any more than three subprojects, and I find that I have way too many things apart and scattered which is frustrating and hampers progress.

Having trouble getting started? Get started with the thing that your really WANT to do. Something will inevitabley get in your way. The thing that gets in your way is subproject number two. Work the subprojects until one is done. The thing that needs to be done next will stand as sub project number three.

Of course, these are just my own personal guidelines that I operate on. Hope it helps.

[SuperBuickGuy]

This is now twice, first with the Skylark, now with the diesel truck. I swapped to 4 wheel disks and originally left the stock proportioning valve in the car (disk/drum); in the skylark it stopped better with the stock proportioning valve. I haven't changed it in the truck, and it stops better than it did disk/drum now as disk/disk with the stock valve. I think the engineers got the balance right, so don't change the proportioning valve unless you have a problem.... best part is it's cheaper and easier.

I know your falcon is drum drum - which would still be perfect when you go disk/disk because you want the same bias

[milner351]

Also, I have been thinking about your time available for working on the car. Since I am in the same boat as far as getting some
"car" time, I thought I might share my general strategy with you.

While working on a total car rebuild, I like to have 3 subprojects going on at any given time. For instance, I am currently working on finishing the seat mounting, floorpan cleanup, and trying to clean up the dashboard. I will not start another sub project until one of those is completed to my satisfaction.

Three subprojects keeps me from being stuck with nothing to do because of a parts hold up, paint drying, or just being stumped. If I cannot go any further on one, I move to another. Any more than three subprojects, and I find that I have way too many things apart and scattered which is frustrating and hampers progress.

Having trouble getting started? Get started with the thing that your really WANT to do. Something will inevitabley get in your way. The thing that gets in your way is subproject number two. Work the subprojects until one is done. The thing that needs to be done next will stand as sub project number three.

Of course, these are just my own personal guidelines that I operate on. Hope it helps.

THANK YOU ! sharing strategies like this helps - agreed - having a "road block now what" plan is vital.

I like your seat plan too - the falcon bench tracks probably won't be much help - but a universal set of tracks or bucket tracks from something else would fine - since the floor pans are out of a first gen mustang - first gen mustang tracks would work too - the more I think about the manual idea - the more I like it - sure - the seats won't be as adjustable as the 10,000 way power seats - but - they'll be way lighter and far faster to install!

[milner351]

This is now twice, first with the Skylark, now with the diesel truck. I swapped to 4 wheel disks and originally left the stock proportioning valve in the car (disk/drum); in the skylark it stopped better with the stock proportioning valve. I haven't changed it in the truck, and it stops better than it did disk/drum now as disk/disk with the stock valve. I think the engineers got the balance right, so don't change the proportioning valve unless you have a problem.... best part is it's cheaper and easier.

I know your falcon is drum drum - which would still be perfect when you go disk/disk because you want the same bias

HM
Hadn't thought of that - but the stock falcon set up was a single pot master - I think all that stuff went to the scrap pile.

I was originally going with granada front spindles, discs, and master - so we robbed the prop valve from the same donor car as the spindles and brakes.

SO - something like this is not a good plan?

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Compac...alve,1979.html

[SuperBuickGuy]

only if you need it. You wouldn't believe the cost and trouble I went through to get the brakes to work correctly on the Buick. I went through the "not enough fluid" "bad calipers (at $125 each)" "wrong pads".... in the end, taking the restriction out of the manual proportioning valve solved the problem (50/50). It wasn't "ideal", but I never had a situation where I ever considered putting any kind of reducer in the back.
The truck, has 3/4 ton running gear - and I'm far less concerned about unloaded locking up with it than I was with the drums. I varied the pads, I put a less aggressive pad on the back than I did on the front. It still will lock them up in a hard stop on wet ground (unloaded). But ask the guy in the honda that had a choice between bumper and ditch whose brakes were better (he told me that he saw me stop and he hit the brakes at the same time but somehow I managed to stop faster than he did )

[1946Austin]

Remember you're not filling that caliper every time you hit the brake pedal. Regardless of size, a disc brake is always lightly touching the rotor, so all you're doing is applying pressure, and that doesn't take much volume. The piston size in a master is what determines the amount of pressure on the cylinders/calipers. A smaller piston developes more pressure than a large piston.
I'm running a Subaru master on my Austin with disc/drum setup, and although it's tiny it does a great job of stopping the car.

[milner351]

as with many things - it all comes down to the math!

Thanks for the input guys - truly appreciate it.

The Granada master that I have is a 15/16" bore, made for manual brakes, disc/drum.

Crown vic rear calipers are 48mm bore (1.89")

Mustang 2 front calipers are 2.6" still need to confirm what calipers I have for the front, they came with the kit, still new in plastic, but no part numbers.

So - some basic math - given 100psi brake fluid pressure

there will be 530lb of front brake pressure at each caliper, and 280lb for the rear.

Not knowing what the front / rear weights will be - I'm not sure if that is good bad or indifferent.

I don't know the pad size differences, nor have I played much with brake pad composition which I know vary greatly.... but don't know what's best for a given application.


How about this???

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rsd-pv72

[milner351]

Thanks to two friends in two different junkyards in two different states over the weekend - I have manual tbird seat tracks for the Mark 8 seats (Thanks Russell) and - a disc/disc proportioning valve from a crown vic (thanks Marco).

Previously, a crown vic of the same era gave up it's 8.8 rear disc axle (thanks Greg) so - at least the rear calipers and prop valve are of the same pedigree.

We'll just have to see how this goes together. The crown vic is a much heavier car than the falcon - and it has power brakes.
I would like to retain the use of the Granada manual brake master cylinder because I have it and I know it fits the firewall with little fuss where the single pot master came off.

[TheSilverBuick]

Try the master you have now, if you don't like the pedal feel, then change it out.

[TheSilverBuick]

as with many things - it all comes down to the math!

Thanks for the input guys - truly appreciate it.

The Granada master that I have is a 15/16" bore, made for manual brakes, disc/drum.

Crown vic rear calipers are 48mm bore (1.89")

Mustang 2 front calipers are 2.6" still need to confirm what calipers I have for the front, they came with the kit, still new in plastic, but no part numbers.

So - some basic math - given 100psi brake fluid pressure

there will be 530lb of front brake pressure at each caliper, and 280lb for the rear.

Not knowing what the front / rear weights will be - I'm not sure if that is good bad or indifferent.

I don't know the pad size differences, nor have I played much with brake pad composition which I know vary greatly.... but don't know what's best for a given application.


How about this???

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rsd-pv72

It doesn't come down to math, it comes down to what works. Math it all you want, but only testing is going to tell you if you like it.


(btw this is the pot calling the kettle black, lmao!)

[milner351]

Right!

I'm already considering flex hoses out of the master - they'll be easier to change around to different configurations!
LOL

[STINEY]

Only reason OEMs don't use flex is rigid line is cheaper. Sounds like its coming together!

Don't forget to pay particular attention to that pedal ratio for a manual setup. The ratio isn't brand or model specific, its human specific. One ratio for manual and one for power, no matter the application.

[milner351]

The falcon was originally manual brakes, single pot master, 2 wheel drums.

The "lever" should be as it was in '62, just need to adapt the pushrod to fit the granada master.

My ever optimistic nature (really - I'm trying) is telling me it will all be fine. But I am curious as to the prices of flex lines just to simplify things if I do have to do a SBG like round robin of prop valves to find one that doesn't suck.