62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

[milner351]

Roll bar talk again....

I think this is the best option:

https://www.cachassisworks.com/p-494-8-point-roll-bar1-34x134.aspx

With the horizontal bar across the main hoop, and door bars removed - it's livable on the street - even with Lee's car seat in the back.

For track days and drag week - bolt in the horizontal bar to the main hoop, and pin in the door bars - it's legal to 11.00.... if this car goes that fast - the happy dance by yours truly will be nearly as epic as James after his wheel up 10 pass on DW

[STINEY]

There is a fellow remotely local to us who has a knack with tubing.

Seanm in Dayton area? http://www.bangshift.com/forum/showt...ighlight=SEANM

He's done some nice cages.

[Bob Holmes]

I am utterly against the type of installation that you've shown, John. You, and your family's safety is worth more than $179.

I generally think the world of Chris Alston's products. I intend to use them for my Bonneville build, if I ever find the time and money. However, this type of rollbar is an illusion of safety. Furthermore, it doesn't provide the type of chassis stiffening and suspension support that a proper cage would provide. Yes, Yes, I know that it says that its certified up to a certain elapsed time, but so what. If you intend to run a bunch of tubes in the interior of your car, you should be trying to maximize the safety and benefit that those tubes will provide.

If you chose to go this direction, please, at a minimum, weld in all the points. Then wrap the tubes with a proper SFI rated padding, not that pipe insulation crap that you can get at the local hardware store. If you don't want to use the SFI rated padding, insist that everyone wear helmets while you're driving around.

Perhaps I'm over sensitized to safety, but I think too much of folks here to ever recommend such a rollbar system. Even if it was track only. I'd rather see you leave it out.

Sorry, I don't mean to rant. But...

[milner351]

Bob I value your opinion more than you know - I've never done a bar before and therefore I am going at this whole idea with a good bit of caution.

I would weld the frame attachment points to the car (tig if I could get it in there, but mig is so much easier)

I would pad it (tell me more about this padding that's "correct")

The removable functions are required for my intended use of the car - the horizontal cross bar for the shoulder belts has to be removable to allow rear seat access.

The down bars / door bars have to be removable to make using the car to drive around daily feasible.

The floor / subframe attachment points would be welded / reinforced / etc. No bolts through the floor.

[Bob Holmes]

Proper padding:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-80944?gclid=COHsz-7IqbQCFUxxQgodpkcARw

MIG is fine, I wouldn't spend the time to TIG.

[milner351]

so welded to the floor is good...

[STINEY]

I am utterly against the type of installation that you've shown, John.

This type of rollbar is an illusion of safety.

If you intend to run a bunch of tubes in the interior of your car, you should be trying to maximize the safety and benefit that those tubes will provide.

If you chose to go this direction, please, at a minimum, weld in all the points.

I'd rather see you leave it out.

Sorry, I don't mean to rant. But...

Bob, I condensed your post to show the highlights that I personally noticed. You have mine (and Johns' I'm certain) complete attention.

If you would be so generous with your thoughts, please by all means, rant away. I'd love to know more of your opinion on this subject?

[SuperBuickGuy]

I'm with Bob on that roll bar. It's not even DOM tubing, it's simply seam-welded, mild steel.

Get a tube bender and 40' of 1 5/8 .120 wall DOM tubing (20 to practice, 20 to build) and build it yourself. If you go with the Eastwood bender, remember it only does 45* at a time....

In answer to your other issue about kid loading. I had an 8 point in the Skylark and hauled kids relatively often in the back seat. The cross bar was padded for those excursions with SFI padding.... and kids had no problem going through the center and into the back seat; and adult? not likely unless they're a performer for Circ du Soliel.

Design:
I'd run the vertical bars to the frame connector you already installed.
I'd also run the door bars to that frame connector, but as low on your elbow as possible so that it makes it easy to get in and out. I'd weld it in because: down low it's not really in the way, and I hate, hate, hate rattles - and door bars rattle, always.

I would run a windshield bar and dash bar because those cars (all pre-crash test cars) are terrible for roof integrity and for collapsing at the front door post. I'd also run a final bar (since the car's apart) all the way to the MII cross member.

If you don't want to spend weeks bending, Art Morrison as an universal, weld-in, 10 point cage kit for $330.00.

I wouldn't tig it either

[Bob Holmes]

so welded to the floor is good...

Provided that either 1) your plate is backed up on the other side of the floorpan with another backing plate, or 2) the tube extends to a frame member/sub frame connector that can distribute the load. I'm primarily concerned with the main hoop. Because of the fact that you are trying to make sure that the vehicle can utilze its rear seat, you will not be able to take advantage of a diagonal to help distribute the load. Consider an X crossing of the rear most down tubes, which may provide that benefit, as opposed to the straight tubes dropping to the rear wheel houses. I would prefer to see those tubes land at your upper shock mounting points. You'd plate those points and then land the tubes there, with a potential cross tube going from mount to mount.

Any place that an arm, leg, head, (insert body part here), might impact a tube should have SFI rated padding. You'd be surprised by how far a body gets flung, even when belted, in an incident. Best advice is to pad it all.

[Bob Holmes]

I'm with Bob on that roll bar. It's not even DOM tubing, it's simply seam-welded, mild steel.

Wow, my initial revulsion made me miss that. That's an absolute stopper.

[Beagle]

jeezus you guys are picky. This is why I will let a chassis builder do mine.

[Bob Holmes]

What makes you think the chassis builder will get it right? Knowledge is your best bet.

[Russell]

So I have been thinking about looking for a car that comes pre-caged, how do I know if its safe?

[Bob Holmes]

So I have been thinking about looking for a car that comes pre-caged, how do I know if its safe?

You don't.

[Russell]

You don't.