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Timing TDC rotor positon question MOPAR 383

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  • Timing TDC rotor positon question MOPAR 383

    okay, upgraded from points to electronic. it is a Post 72 Chrysler distributor and ICU. All the wiring checks out. It would crank but not crank properly. It really felt like a car that had a timing chain skipped a tooth or two. I could get it to start every once in a while but it would not stay running if it did it was like total crap. it would backfire thru carb, balls of flames.... its a total disaster.

    I think I was 180 out but to be honest I am not sure.

    This is what I know. I've rotated the engine around and I have it zeroed out at the top of compression stroke.BY that I mean the timing marks are at 0. Everything I've read says that the rotor should point to the #1 cylinder. Well, how the hell is that possible? It cant point to that cylinder due to the distributors position on the engine. So, is it supposed to point to #1 plug wire on the rotor cap? If that is the case then I have it set up properly now. If not I have no effing idea what to do except pour gas on the bitch and strike a match. I need help before I am arrested for arson.
    Last edited by JOES66FURY; March 23, 2014, 05:34 PM.
    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  • #2


    I think this is what it should look like is set up at TDC
    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

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    • #3
      this is how it is wired. I've quadruple checked this and it is good.

      If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

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      • #4
        If it was 180 out it wouldn't even start.
        BS'er formally known as Rebeldryver

        Resident Instigator

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        • #5
          Have you done the "dead stick" timing thing? With the timing marks lined up to where it should be starting (8 BTDC or whatever), turn the distributor housing CCW a little ways, then CW a little ways, it should spark ( key on, coil wire almost grounded). That will let you know if the timing is correct.

          Of course you need to make sure it's really on compression stroke on #1 cylinder, it has a strong spark, etc.

          If you've been trying to start it for a while, and you have fixed a few problems that you found, it's possible the plugs are fouled from all the messing around, and you should try a set of fresh (as in new out of the box) plugs. But first make triple sure that it's getting spark, at the right time, and has fresh gas, etc.

          Some times these things need to sit for a day to think about what they've done, so they behave next time...
          My fabulous web page

          "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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          • #6
            ITS ALIVE! I figured it out, I got it to start and runs...poorly but it runs. It is not missing and is doing what it should as far as "spark" goes. It took some looking and fiddling but I found that I just plain screwed up and did not have the damn plug wires routed properly. stupid mistake but it took me some time to step away and really think about what I did and really look at the pictures. Stupid mistake.


            Now, If you're following along at home. Here is where I stand. The car will start and it will run...for a short time. It idles really fast, and it will backfire thru the carb with spectacular fashion. Flames and whatnot. I understand at this point it would indicate I have a intake leak. I suspect the spacer/gaskets are causing an issue or I screwed the pooch when I rebuilt the carb. can I double up on carb gaskets? maybe RTV? Or maybe a wiped cam lobe? thoughts

            Last edited by JOES66FURY; March 23, 2014, 08:02 PM.
            If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

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            • #7
              alright, I think I found another issues looking at the Holley manual. I know I have the vacuum advance hooked up to the wrong port on the carb. It should go on the pass side port above the idle mixture screw (timed spark vacuum source). I have it routed to the manifold vacuum port at the base of carb on the front side. Not sure if this will cause any of the issues I am having but I will fond out tomorrow.
              Last edited by JOES66FURY; March 23, 2014, 08:07 PM.
              If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

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              • #8
                From your project car thread it sounds like it ran kinda ok before the distributor swap? If so maybe there's something bad with the new parts. The vacuum advance shouldn't make a whole lot of difference to how it's running whichever port it's hooked to.

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                • #9
                  it was running poorly when I parked it 2 years ago. I tried to get it going a few months back but there was no spark. The old Pertronix unit failed and I didn't want to continue using a product I couldn't trust. So I converted to Mopar style ignition system for reliability and affordability. I think the problem is still related to timing and maybe a intake leak. I am still going to swap out the plugs and swap the vacuum lines and see where I stand.
                  If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

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                  • #10
                    ...and make sure you have the air cleaner on it every time you try to start it.
                    My fabulous web page

                    "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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                    • #11
                      Whenever I get a unknown engine/car to monkey with, I go full-tilt fool-proof on the timing. Most stuff is so old now that various things work against you.....timing ring slips on dampner, previous owner "improvements", timing by ear, mystery distributors, etc.

                      So first thing I do is pull the valve cover and spark plug from #1 cylinder. Rotate engine IN PROPER DIRECTION while watching rockers/valves. When #1 intake valve opens and then closes, start watching through the spark plug hole. (a wooden dowel rod is helpful here) watch the piston/dowell until it is at the very TOP of its travel.

                      STOP. Now look at the timing pointer and TDC mark on the dampner/pulley. IT SHOULD LINE UP PERFECTLY. IF not, disregard any marks and MAKE yourself a new mark so that you KNOW FOR SURE WHERE TDC IS.

                      Now you can notate where your distributor is pointing, and use that terminal as #1 and start running your plug wires from there.

                      Somewhat anal, but can make you look like a miracle worker.

                      Works every time. Plus you can now set timing advance accurately. Take this method a little farther and mark off degrees of rotation on the pulley/dampner with a scribe or engraver up to 50 degrees (which is only 1/4 of the circumference of the pulley/dampner) for a home-brewed degree wheel.
                      Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

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                      • #12
                        Stiney for the win - as usual. I don't speak mopar - but regardless of engine origin - if you have fubar'd timing marks/damper/pointer/distributor - you're up a creek with no paddle, or compass. At least with this set up -you don't have to wonder which firing order it could be...
                        There's always something new to learn.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by squirrel View Post
                          ...and make sure you have the air cleaner on it every time you try to start it.
                          He speakum trufh. Air filter, good. Giant fireball, bad.

                          The gap between the reluctor and pickup in the dist can have a huge effect on the ignition. A MP small block dist drove me nuts once until I realized the gap was waaaaaay too big.
                          Life is short. Be a do'er and not a shoulda done'er.
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                          • #14
                            good point James. I got to fix a 383 recently, friend came over to visit, car wouldn't start when it was time to leave. No spark. Finally checked the reluctor gap, it was too wide closed it up a little and it ran great. 0.008" with a brass feeler gage, I think?
                            My fabulous web page

                            "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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                            • #15
                              Youre correct Jim, its .008. I realized it was out after a bit, it was .016 out of the box. It got MUCH better after that. TDC is good. I checked it just as Stiney suggested. It's one of the few things my old man taught me about working on cars. I had my daughter handing me wires as we set that up and a few of them got crossed.
                              If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

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