Tubular A Arms For Manual Steering Rides

[Monk]

Yes..........No?

[SuperBuickGuy]

yes, Plastic Fantastic 1 had manual steering with tubular arms. If anything, it'd be less hard on the arm because without power steering you will stop being able to turn the wheel.... in the 4x4 world, they use hydraulic assist and hydraulic steering.... which is great, right up to the point where you break a knuckle

[Loren]

?..

[Monk]

?..

Saw on a couple of forums that tubular A Arms were a waste of time and effort on manual steering car
I would think it would be just the opposite
Just looking for feedback

[squirrel]

I think they're a waste of time and effort on most cars, manual or otherwise. But if you think they are worth doing, then I doubt manual or power steering will make much difference in how much improvement you get out of them. They really have little to do with the steering, do they? More to do with unsprung weight, suspension geometry, rigidity, and appearance.

[Loren]

Agreed. For custom widths, different spindle uprights than stock, to accommodate modification such as coil-overs or air bags, or to get more positive caster than what stockers could be adjusted to seems to me the only practical reasons to use them. Other than that, appearance...something to drop a few bucks on. A friend's set weighed more than the originals did, maybe they were stronger but I've never bent an a-arm even in a curb hit although I've seen it done. Another guy's set was said to be lighter but I'm not sure how, I didn't weigh them but it couldn't have been much difference. A GM stamped lower can have tabs welded between the spring cups and outer lips where they curve around and become a bit stiffer for zero bucks if that were felt to be needed, Chevy modified their Vega parts that way when they went into V8 Monzas and I've done it to some of my cars when I had them apart. None of this would have anything to do with steering style, steering being hardly the biggest force an a-arm has to deal with.

If you just needed new a-arms anyhow, fabricated ones might be a choice. I know a company that scrapped many tens-of-thousands of dollars worth of very-nice-looking brand-new stamped (as opposed to fabricated) a-arms because the supplier turned out to have used an inferior steel, do you trust the people you're buying from to do something like that instead of just selling them along to you? Man there is a lot of crap out there with any type of new part, avoiding it all can be a pain. In fact, some of the fabricated a-arms out there don't look to me like something I'd feel real confident about, I'd sure shop around.

In my time I've broken some ball joints, two lowers and an upper, for me that's what I worry about more anyhow.

[squirrel]

Of course, I might not be the right guy to talk to about this stuff, I have axles in the front of my rides

[anotheridiot]

I really never considered them for steering, more for ride and suspension. Mainly the stamped stock ones are pretty much a waste when they get rusted out and flex so I thought the easiest fix were these tubular ones. By the time you weld on enough steel to strengthen stock ones you are carrying three times the weight.

[mike343sharpstick]

Interesting, IF you replace stock, stamped steel control arms with tubular units that have the same steering geometry you wouldn't notice any change in steering feel. If you do, something is wrong.

I am speculating that when you update to a tubular set of control arms, you are also increasing caster. Most aftermarket suspensions allow more adjustment for caster and camber than the stock bits.
Typically to use modern, larger radial tires you want more Caster for a pro-touring/racing application. More Caster would increase steering effort.
IF you have manual steering you typically use less caster, so perhaps if you are running manual steering you would want to use stock geometry rather than the increased caster used for power steering?? Just speculation.

[Monk]

'55 Chevy doesn't have a whole lot of caster/camber to play with........these would be more for driveability as opposed to steering

[Deaf Bob]

In derby we go thru quite a few a-arms.. They tend to give up at the ball joint..and the bushings at the legs of the "A"
Prerty hard to screw the majority up badly.. Direct hits generally do them in after body and bumper are bent out of the way
Then the shaft up top bends at the bushings..


Tubular allows more adjustability.. Supposedly, depending on what you get..

[fatguyzinc]

the guys i know who actually run dedicated "race cars"
all usually run the stock control arms for 1 reason--

when you hit a curb or slide into something, they would
MUCH rather swap a crumpled control arm that saved
the frame, than to have a strong control arm and a bent frame.

[Deaf Bob]

the guys i know who actually run dedicated "race cars"
all usually run the stock control arms for 1 reason--

when you hit a curb or slide into something, they would
MUCH rather swap a crumpled control arm that saved
the frame, than to have a strong control arm and a bent frame.

There ARE dedicated A-arms for derby... Very strong. Beefy where they tend to break..
Then there is the "DOWN THE LINE" principle..
Stronger A-arms, what then gives "down the line"
Better example is stronger rear leaf pack..the "down the line" will be the spring eye mounting point up front going in the dirt (the Edsel wagon in "B" pics)
I have welded A-arms.. Kinda a waste of time..

[Monk]

Ordered up a set of Global West upper A arms this week......should have the install done by next weekend then to the alignment shop

[Monk]

Got a set of the Global West upper arms and while at it replace inner and outer tie rods with Moog stuff......as well as lower ball joints
Also installed a nice billet adjuster
Allows up to 5 deg of caster............and manual steering improved
Great improvement on driveability