4x4 Bench Build

[Dan Barlow]

P.S . I have never seeked out consumer reports for advise on a purchase . And no , I still have a very faint smell at a light with the windows down . I did have more plastic attack the car in the form of a shopping bag but it got caught between a joint of the three piece front air dam . Maybe I don't need that resonator .

[SuperBuickGuy]

the funny part about that picture - the Sammis were the only vehicles that made it up with me - of course, coming back and them trying to get through some of the holes I created was a bit fun; but all of those sammis are basically stock rigs with maybe a larger 4 cyl upgrade or VW TDI diesel.... and that was my point, you can build from the ground up but there are so many decision points that you really do need to know the answer to before you build... get a Sammi, see what breaks - then build a rig that doesn't break.

[SuperBuickGuy]

They DO look like they're having fun, even IF freezing small body parts off. Plus snow is CLEAN. A buddy that had a blown Pro Streeter and a Tough Truck winning 4x4 told me cleaning the blower car before an event was fun. Cleaning the 4x4 after one was agony, but necessary to keep it from eating parts. He said that was THE beginner mistake in off roading. How do the various 4x4s do at repelling and releasing the grit?

best parts of snow wheeling:
1) I'm not in a Speedo
2) I don't have to clean the rig when I'm done.
3) fat is encouraged.

[Dan Barlow]

.........get a Sammi, see what breaks - then build a rig that doesn't break.

We really are saying basically the same thing . Only we just don't like the other ones pick . Buy something you like that isn't too big or too small and wheel it and see what needs improved before the mods begin .

[Monster]

Steve started this by saying " ground up " build so in my head , that means upgraded axles .........well basically everything . But in the mean time , he can wheel it and decide what he needs next.

Yes, originally I did say that, but after realizing I want it to be registerable, I realize to avert innumerable objections by the DMV with a custom vehicle, I really need to start with a currently licensed and running base to start with.

[Monster]

get a Sammi, see what breaks - then build a rig that doesn't break.

What about these close by ?

https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/1986-suzuki-samurai/6549320832.html

https://daytona.craigslist.org/cto/d...549840445.html

[SuperBuickGuy]

the first one, he brings up a really, really good point.... rear lockers on a short wheelbase, 75% of your traction comes from the rear so usually you want a rear locker first - but in a short wheelbase vehicle, especially at speed, it makes handling something you really need to pay attention to because it will go from understeer to snap oversteer because you have 'break' the bond of the loc-rite locker to turn. Long wheelbase has more leverage so it works 'better'. With that said, I have loc-rites on both ends of mine but I've driven a lot of them so I know if it's not turning to let off the throttle before I add more steering input.

That said, I like it. no rust, smart upgrades, good mileage. The one thing I would do to that one is widen the track with spacers. Once you decide if you want to mud or not, those tires would need to be changed (or carry mud chains). That one - it looks like it has good mods BUT spring-over conversions are easy to do and hard to do right - so it needs to drive right... pay particular attention to vibrations. Short wheelbase rear driveshafts at high angles tend to vibrate can point out a lot of other 'mistakes' made in assembly. That said, if it drives right, you could wheel it this weekend. I especially like the low gears in the t-case, that's a $1500-$2000 upgrade and makes putting offroad so much more enjoyable and safe.

the second one. I'd avoid tires larger then 32" - you really don't need the flotation and it makes breaking things far easier. Not just that but those tires are bias ply, which work awesome off road but wear out in 10,000 miles and all of those miles you'll feel like you just rescued your life after every drive.
it's also pretty worn out and hasn't had many mods (not to mention whenever someone says "a few spots of rust" that usually means one good hit and the car falls apart).

[SuperBuickGuy]

Interesting second point about that 1986 one - extreme zuks got featured for their 1.3 upgrade on Car Fix. The short of it is that a reputable mechanic who specializes in Sammis has had his hands on it. So again, yes on the 86, no on the 87.

[silver_bullet]

Get a Mahindra Roxor...made in Detroit...built on license from Jeep...many jeep parts interchange...not street legal, but possibly find a donor CJ 3 to stretch
and do a chassis swap... then street legal CJ 3 with turbo diesel power!

[SuperBuickGuy]

Get a Mahindra Roxor...made in Detroit...built on license from Jeep...many jeep parts interchange...not street legal, but possibly find a donor CJ 3 to stretch
and do a chassis swap... then street legal CJ 3 with turbo diesel power!

you all know I love diesels, but I'm not sure I think it's a good idea in an offroad vehicle that needs to go fast. Aaron Kaufman's new show with the 2.8 cummins powered Scout underlined that.... there are places where certain things shine, and while there will always be some joker out there to prove that never means mostly never - in the end, spending all that money on a super light 4x4 just to hogtie it with a peaky, heavy power plant doesn't make sense (for most). This all falls under "go see what everyone else is doing and start there" advice, but the 'news' is diesel is awesome but not for all things. FWIW, the jury is still out whether the 2.8 diesel in my Colorado is a good idea - for the torque, it should do better towing a trailer (though I may throw a tune at it and resolve this issue).... the VW TDI, the Cummins for sure, Land Rover 300 TDI, even the Colorado (which bandaids the issue with a variable turbo) have an RPM range from 1800 to 2800 and nothing on either side. To get bottom end torque, you need bigger displacement. bigger displacement means a 1000 lb motor....

as for the Mahindra - why buy that when a Polaris RZR or any of them cost the same and give you things like ride quality and build quality? Frankly in side-by-sides, I think the 'room to go faster' comes from a clutch and gear box. Those the Mahindra have, but the problem is solid axle vehicles suck at high speed offroad, which is where the SBS excel. The issue with Mahindra is that it would require an absolute change in national opinion to make them street legal. We suffer bad fuel economy because there's now a rule that said cars must be designed to protect jaywalkers. Nevermind that the big, square nose kills fuel economy - for Mahindra to succeed, we first have to muzzle the "what about the children" criers, then accept that we all make choices that extend or short (sometimes severely) our lives. That kind of nuance isn't going to happen. So Mahindra will limp along selling to the same OHV market as the established brands, and likely make good money selling to countries who place less value on their citizen's lives....

[silver_bullet]

Hence the CJ body swap....the Mahindra is a stretched CJ3 with several upgrades IIRC, the DIFFS are 44s, better brakes, and upgraded steering...

[Deaf Bob]

Kid bought a couple Sidekicks.. 2" lift is donut plastic and shocks and a couple other bits..
Newer one is "Sport". Little bigger motor, Older one looks really easy toturbo and s 1.8L.
He put 31X9.5X15 Super Swampers on them but only one is used now.. Rear fenders had 2" trimmed off..
Never intend to go on the road, but would be easy to do if wanted to..
He got autos so the granddaughters aged 9&10 can also drive them..
Plenty of poop in low range to go anywhere on the farm including standing water in muddy clay ... We do have some pretty steep hills.
The worst 4X4's I've offroaded were the SWB Chevy and 57 IH ... Best are the dualies, GMC crew and 51 Dodge.. Top one I ever had was the FJ...
The Sidekick can get you in trouble and out...easily
We like enclosed (for now) because of brush and mud..

[RockJustRock]

At those prices buy both. The blue one to drive, the other just to show off. Buy two more and still be cheaper than Mahindra because of course NO used ones.

[SuperBuickGuy]

Kid bought a couple Sidekicks.. 2" lift is donut plastic and shocks and a couple other bits..
Newer one is "Sport". Little bigger motor, Older one looks really easy toturbo and s 1.8L.
He put 31X9.5X15 Super Swampers on them but only one is used now.. Rear fenders had 2" trimmed off..
Never intend to go on the road, but would be easy to do if wanted to..
He got autos so the granddaughters aged 9&10 can also drive them..
Plenty of poop in low range to go anywhere on the farm including standing water in muddy clay ... We do have some pretty steep hills.
The worst 4X4's I've offroaded were the SWB Chevy and 57 IH ... Best are the dualies, GMC crew and 51 Dodge.. Top one I ever had was the FJ...
The Sidekick can get you in trouble and out...easily
We like enclosed (for now) because of brush and mud..

sidekicks are a different animal, the editor over 4wheeler (or is it 4x4 and offroad?) has been trying to convince his readers that it's a smart purchase - I'm not convinced, IFS is great for towing behind a motorhome and great for the retired set - but they're too hard to lift, too heavy, and quite frankly, look like a hairdresser car. Simple - when asked the same question for autocross - everyone thinks I'll tell them Corvettes, nope, Miata. Fun, light, small, cheap - once you get hooked, then buy a Corvette and practice Miata door removal techniques. Light and small offroad are easier to drive, less costly to maintain, easier to get unstuck, get stuck less often (in part because they usually don't try the hole made by people like me in my '40)... BUT, you get the fun and you then can figure out of you like climbing rocks, driving on snow, powering through mud, going on overland adventures, or simply going to the ocean and sticking a fishing pole in your front bumper.... the vehicle that can do all of those things is a Samurai, it certainly won't be the best, but gives you 90% of the fun for 10% of the cost of doing it 'for real'.

4 wheeling is a heck of a lot of fun - but I've seen so many people get a specialized 4x4 vehicle then give up on the entire sport because the vehicle is awesome at doing something that doesn't interest or (usually) scares the hell out of them.

[silver_bullet]

I know I'm beating a dead horse on this, but i read this and the idea got stuck in my mind....: https://jalopnik.com/heres-how-simil...eep-1823474555