Car Craft

[Loren]

... how to you manage / control the potential conflict of interest of the "sponsors" giving you what they want to sell - not necessarily what is the best product for the intended job/usage?

Frankly in our society where we've decided the rule will have to be for people to make up their own minds and "let the buyer beware", I don't think it should be totally up to journalists to figure out for us what the best product is for any use...just throw it out there, test to whatever parameter, if the writer winds up with their own opinions that's for entertainment value only because whatever worked for them is not necessarily going to work for me. We hope magazines will be fair to their readers and not worry about ad dollars so much but they have to make their business choices there and we have to, well, beware.

Sponsors pushing product and giving it away to where it will get ink probably also means they're ready and up there to sell and ship it to customers, some companies making the "best" stuff may not be interested when a guy like me calls, who knows. Magazines are really (and sorta have to be) one big advertisement, their task is bringing attention into the marketplace, manufacturers who want to participate can buy ads and send stuff, companies who would rather hide in a corner or niche can do it their way too but don't expect too much attention from a media that's in the business of attention.

I've had some hard lessons buying parts from companies very-much favored over time by magazine writers, and canceled subscriptions when I felt the magazines participating in pushing those products (or in some cases collaborating with the thieves selling them) were full of crap... Just how it goes. I don't think it's possible for the magazines to really tell us what the best products for me are anyhow, out here in the jungle we sorta hafta work it out for ourselves.

It's like some of those mags, you-know...I'm just mainly reading 'em for the pictures...

(Just my opinion.)

[SuperBuickGuy]

I did a "back of the envelope" calculation for this series. Without any sponsorships or product placements . . .

The engines will likely cost between $5,000 and $10,000 (we could scrimp a little here on the small blocks), so the minimum for four engines is at least $20,000 and more likely closer to $40,000.

The engine dyno time, without comps . . . $2,000+

You have to have at least two cars to test the engines in . . . cars that have at least 10.00 safety equipment (Magnante's 500 Cadillac-in-a-Chevette scam wouldn't hold up for long on a big comparison test) . . . Even a pair of "Roadkill" rat-type rollers are going to run at least $7500 by the time they were safe enough for the lawyers). And if new transmissions and rear axle assemblies factor into the deal at retail prices . . . $2,000 minimum per transmission and $1,000 per axle. (some may object that the "editors" could just build up the parts cheaper or we could gamble with junkyard stuff, but time is money)

Track rentals . . . $3,000+

Another $3000 minimum for tires (cheap rollers probably won't come with new slicks or track day safe tires and for the test to be valid, the cars would need to be on equal meats).

We are in the range of $38,000-$58,000 already and we haven't paid anyone to shoot photos, write and edit the stories, or build and thrash the cars.

If we milked it for a ten-story series, the cost -- just in hard parts -- per story is $3,800-$5,800, minimum. The real world cost, without comps or sponsors would likely be even higher.

Bottom line: a magazine would have to sell a ton of ads and new subscriptions to pay the freight on that one.

If the story has a video component, the production costs (and ad load) increase dramatically.

And now, hopefully, everyone understands why "freebees" are a necessary evil.

While I'm all for derailleurs and am a master at it - the comment was about self-aggrandizing magazine articles - not really how hard it is being a business trying to make a profit.

That said, while going down that route - so Lucky got 10k worth of parts, presuming 10% profit on parts, that means Holley and Ridetech must sell an additional 100,000 in parts for their give away to pencil out. While I'm a natural skeptic, I'm not seeing how his little channel would generate that kind of revenue. You're arguing that the manufacturers wouldn't support such an article, but if they're so silly as to do the giveaway described above - I'm not seeing how they wouldn't want to be part of a 10 month, multi-page presentation of their goods. Heck, the Corvette at the center of my dislike of Finnegan went to Holley.... there's the first step of the test with a car already in your possession.

I think you're proving my point, though, you asked what you should do - there it is.... so where's my freebies? As you can get freebies to do that - do.... in unrelated news, I liked Hot Rod Garage (nope don't pay so the old one) where Tony detailed all the problems and mistakes he made in building his Drift 'cuda and the fixes for them.... breath of fresh air is what I call that. No one but UnReality TV finishes the final bolt on the car then delivers it the next day.

and that's the second point - when Mopar puts the oil pickup too high in the pan for a drift car, it's neat when a magazine (who will get Mopar to fix it) tells its readers this inside information so that they don't run afoul of the same issue.

In other news, isn't it interesting how GM told Four Wheeler magazine to pound sand for the FWOTY test? I think that when a major manufacturer says "we don't need you" it doesn't bode well for the entire print industry. (how's that for a derail?)

[SuperBuickGuy]

Frankly in our society where we've decided the rule will have to be for people to make up their own minds and "let the buyer beware", I don't think it should be totally up to journalists to figure out for us what the best product is for any use...just throw it out there, test to whatever parameter, if the writer winds up with their own opinions that's for entertainment value only because whatever worked for them is not necessarily going to work for me. We hope magazines will be fair to their readers and not worry about ad dollars so much but they have to make their business choices there and we have to, well, beware.

Sponsors pushing product and giving it away to where it will get ink probably also means they're ready and up there to sell and ship it to customers, some companies making the "best" stuff may not be interested when a guy like me calls, who knows. Magazines are really (and sorta have to be) one big advertisement, their task is bringing attention into the marketplace, manufacturers who want to participate can buy ads and send stuff, companies who would rather hide in a corner or niche can do it their way too but don't expect too much attention from a media that's in the business of attention.

I've had some hard lessons buying parts from companies very-much favored over time by magazine writers, and canceled subscriptions when I felt the magazines participating in pushing those products (or in some cases collaborating with the thieves selling them) were full of crap... Just how it goes. I don't think it's possible for the magazines to really tell us what the best products for me are anyhow, out here in the jungle we sorta hafta work it out for ourselves.

It's like some of those mags, you-know...I'm just mainly reading 'em for the pictures...

(Just my opinion.)

I accept my fate, therefore you should be as helpless as I am.... while I agree that sheet metal workers are, mostly, useless (I joke because I am one) - I don't think it is as bad as that.... magazines need interaction with their readers that don't start with personal attacks. I think Car Craft could be better - and the entire discussion centers on concrete ways of doing that which are (of course) my opinion.... that said, I'm the representative member of their targeted audience - while they are developing the young'uns for later purchases, they want guys like me (of whom the kids are gone, the money is there, and the interest is finally being realized) to subscribe to their magazines and purchase the products because the 45-65 year old male is their bread and butter audience. I think the magazines could be useful, are sometimes useful, and are a bit more then just a cartoon.... so I know your girlfriend is better then that, but I'm not going to stop making sense.

[Gateclyve Photographic]

However, how to you manage / control the potential conflict of interest of the "sponsors" giving you what they want to sell - not necessarily what is the best product for the intended job/usage?

You've hit on something that's an increasing problem in my personal opinion. For example, many of the on-line new car tests and reviews are written by what are essentially bloggers who are totally beholden to the companies that supply test vehicles. And there are no editorial gatekeepers to enforce journalistic integrity or reign in excesses.

Larger media organizations tend to separate advertising and editorial. And there are generally written policies regarding necessary disclosures.

Ethical, professional writers and editors have to constantly make sure that they're reporting valid facts and providing readers with accurate information. The long-term reputations of the publication and the people producing it should be a check on excess. It is unethical to promise particular results or to give a supplier editorial control over the final story. The public is savvy and will quickly figure out who's telling the unvarnished truth.

In application, when products don't work correctly or are of substandard quality, it can mean not writing a story, turning down a "freebee, or fairly and accurately reporting the results (without venturing into the "nuking the advertiser's business" category of opinion bashing). And often the disclosure that some see as self-aggrandizing is more to advise the readers of "promotional consideration" so that they can factor that in to their evaluation of the story.

[SuperBuickGuy]

Yet they took Mopar's money.... I think the gate is broke

[Gateclyve Photographic]

Maybe. I only see the Mopar thing as an observer (no Mopar love my way, ever).

Generally, they have disclosed the receipt of promotional consideration and I have no reason to believe the reporting is not reasonably accurate. Slamming a Hellcat drivetrain into any vehicle is going to yield spectacular results. It's also way more expensive than most blue collar builders will be funding. I doubt anybody doesn't understand that.

.And who among us would turn down the opportunity to run a factory SRT on an epic road trip such as One Lap of America? The factory Mopar stuff is more entertaining than it is technical . . . and looking at Dodge's recent sales results for the Challenger and Charger lines, it may have a decent return on investment.

For most of us, Mopar spending some modest coin on "Roadkill" hi-jinks is better than them dropping $50mm into NASCAR, isn't it?

[SuperBuickGuy]

Maybe. I only see the Mopar thing as an observer (no Mopar love my way, ever).

Generally, they have disclosed the receipt of promotional consideration and I have no reason to believe the reporting is not reasonably accurate. Slamming a Hellcat drivetrain into any vehicle is going to yield spectacular results. It's also way more expensive than most blue collar builders will be funding. I doubt anybody doesn't understand that.

.And who among us would turn down the opportunity to run a factory SRT on an epic road trip such as One Lap of America? The factory Mopar stuff is more entertaining than it is technical . . . and looking at Dodge's recent sales results for the Challenger and Charger lines, it may have a decent return on investment.

For most of us, Mopar spending some modest coin on "Roadkill" hi-jinks is better than them dropping $50mm into NASCAR, isn't it?

NASWHAT? I'm to complicated for NASCAR, I like going right AND left. Watching motorized WWE isn't my thing. Here's how little I care about NASCAR - until you said Mopar doesn't participate, I didn't know... still don't care.

Disclosure is great, but GM telling them to pound sand for one of their major articles does not bode well for that integrity...

Let's recap One Lap as envisioned by TEN .... We drove a new car with stickers around the US and got really tired.... yippee? About the only questions I have are: "how is Freiburger still married?" and "do his kids know he's their dad?" I know, I'm rude but we've covered that before and you all just need to move on. Note I didn't ask about how Elaina's relationship is going with her boyfriend or anything about the chemstry between Freiburger and Elaina.

[Gateclyve Photographic]

By the way, Chevrolet Performance sponsors events like the Hot Rod Magazine Power Tour and the Car Craft Summer Nationals. I don't think anyone in the know has suggested this sponsorship buys GM more or more favorable editorial coverage. It does buy Chevy attention, display space, brand mentions, and consumer good will.

On the other hand, when Holley is busy cracking the code of direct injection or Edelbrock is opening up a whole new, underserved market, who isn't going to report on that, advertising or not?

[Gateclyve Photographic]

Don't forget, Jeremy Clarkson, James May and Richard Hammond have become millionaires by driving around new -- and sometimes "Roadkilled" near-death --cars. Vicarious entertainment. DF may not be Clarkson, but he's doing well for himself as a "brand."

[SuperBuickGuy]

We haven't talked about talent - none of the GT crew ever claims to be anything but entertainers. They also have the stature to pull off pretty insightful reviews of vehicles - last I checked, Amazon was printing money because of the show and all while not telling them to product place anything - if anything, you'd have to cringe if you sponsor GT or TG when it was good - because that simply got you the attention of Jeremy's wit.

As for the HRPT, to me it's a huge difference between supporting an event vs. sponsoring a magazine. Just as I don't think Lucky was anything but smart to take the freebies, I don't think TEN was stupid to take the money.... unless, of course, they wanted to be considered experts on cars and their mods. Perhaps your NASCAR analogy fits here as well. It used to be about the cars, now it's about the presenters.... too bad, I remember looking forward to learning something (a bit of a cheap shot, but there is some truth behind it).

[nickleone]

I just renewed my Hot Rod subscription and had a Car Craft offer of 1 year at $10 additional. Since I buy CC off the news stands on occasion it was a deal.
I am dropping Street Rodder which I got when Rod & Custom folded to continue my paid subscription.

Nick

[Dan Barlow]

I re-upped Hot Rod , dropped Car Craft ( but am still getting them for now And can't find the time to read either one . For the most part there really isn't anthing that I haven't seen before . I used to get Chevy High Performance , Super Chevy , Popular Hotrodding , Hot Rod , Car Craft , Fourwheel and Offroad , and Fourwheeler , This was in the peak of having kids ! Now I'm not raising any and have no time . I think before I had boundless energy and thirst to do a hot rod and no money , now I have more money and no time . I bought the current vette and with its 300 horse and 6 speed and dana44 rear and air , I'm completely satisfied with it . Oh yeah , I subscribed to Car and driver for the witty wordsmiths . And while a couple are good I really miss Brock Yates . I also let this subscription run out but they are still sending it to me . I have the last two months of them unread due to lack of time .

[ethelkilledfred]

I love buying mag off the rack. Those days are gone. Know John at Car Craft. Car Craft does a good job with what it has. There is no budget for builds so they have to rely on manufactures. Newer builds require more money and more tech. We just did and EFI and you need laptop to make it work. Old school you use a timing light and box of jets. We had an electrical fire and fried the computer even though it was not near the fire. It cost more to play with modern builds not budget like CC is known for. Hot Rod Garage is becoming my favorite show due to all the info they included. I even sign up for MotorTrend on Demand to follow the Bonemarrow build. Want to see what changes they did on China budget build to get it to run 10's. We had a feeling about the convertor and gave us a reason to change our convertor with a Dice Convertor and noticed a difference immediately. We have a similar turbo build going.

[SuperBuickGuy]

I love buying mag off the rack. Those days are gone. Know John at Car Craft. Car Craft does a good job with what it has. There is no budget for builds so they have to rely on manufactures. Newer builds require more money and more tech. We just did and EFI and you need laptop to make it work. Old school you use a timing light and box of jets. We had an electrical fire and fried the computer even though it was not near the fire. It cost more to play with modern builds not budget like CC is known for. Hot Rod Garage is becoming my favorite show due to all the info they included. I even sign up for MotorTrend on Demand to follow the Bonemarrow build. Want to see what changes they did on China budget build to get it to run 10's. We had a feeling about the convertor and gave us a reason to change our convertor with a Dice Convertor and noticed a difference immediately. We have a similar turbo build going.

maybe if they made their readers who are doing these builds as contributors that problem could be mitigated?

[SuperBuickGuy]

I re-upped Hot Rod , dropped Car Craft ( but am still getting them for now And can't find the time to read either one . For the most part there really isn't anthing that I haven't seen before . I used to get Chevy High Performance , Super Chevy , Popular Hotrodding , Hot Rod , Car Craft , Fourwheel and Offroad , and Fourwheeler , This was in the peak of having kids ! Now I'm not raising any and have no time . I think before I had boundless energy and thirst to do a hot rod and no money , now I have more money and no time . I bought the current vette and with its 300 horse and 6 speed and dana44 rear and air , I'm completely satisfied with it . Oh yeah , I subscribed to Car and driver for the witty wordsmiths . And while a couple are good I really miss Brock Yates . I also let this subscription run out but they are still sending it to me . I have the last two months of them unread due to lack of time .

Hot Rod had 2 (TWO) articles this month that were education, informative and quite likely to fly over the head of the typical 12 year old target demographic. Hmm, I can't imagine why some people think I'm sarcastic.