The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

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  • TheSilverBuick
    ALMOST Spidey !
    • Nov 2007
    • 22145

    #571
    Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

    Does anyone remember when Chad started up the Crusher Camaro with out installing the oil pressure gauge line? I just had a similar experience today :'(

    I installed a new T/A timing cover, and I thought to myself, "Hey, since I have the oil pump out, why not try out the Oil Pump Booster plate I have..." Because while cruising in the heat when the car was running at 200+*F the oil pressure at 70mph was a shade under 40psi (@2200rpm), which isn't bad, but I figured if I could be at 50psi I'd feel better climbing hills. Soooo I put it in:



    And at 800rpm idle it maxed the oil pressure gauge, and while feathering the throttle because the choke isn't hooked up and the car hadn't been started in days, I heard a *pop* and see a wave of oil, I instantly cut the engine (the gauge was still reading some pressure). You can see the seal was blown out on the top :-\

    The hood was open when it happened, my fenders, the walls and even the roof of the car port got some spatter.


    Ooops. I pulled the plate off and put it back together and all is well now Took it down to a car wash and Simple greened the heck out of it and sprayed it down.

    It's interesting to note that this same booster plate and oil pump cover came off my 231 V6, and using both the booster plate and a HV kit that 231 had zero oil pressure at idle and had at most 20psi fully warmed up. Yet just the plate at idle here was well over 100psi and popped the seal. I even put a new filter on it and popped a second filter the same way, just to see if I hadn't fully tightened the first one. The second one popped facing down right into the oil drain pan I had under it, convienent 8)

    Good news is with the addition of the timing cover my car is now maintaining a ~180*F temp ;D
    Escaped on a technicality.

    Comment

    • DanStokes
      Ancient LSR Guy
      • Oct 2007
      • 28705

      #572
      Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

      I had mixed results with the booster plate on various BBBs over the years and decided to leave it out unless there was some specific issue. Seems like I remember a spring that controls pressure. Isn't pressure adjustable? Not sure what happened to mine - it's either on the old Chevy PU that the Ex got in the divorce, or I chucked it during one of the moves.

      Dan

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      • TheSilverBuick
        ALMOST Spidey !
        • Nov 2007
        • 22145

        #573
        Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

        I have a 60 psi spring in there now (thought about trying the 40psi spring...), but the booster plate blocks off a significant portion of the return to it. I have long ago ground a passage on the oil pump cover to help bleed off pressure, didn't help me here though :P I may or may not experiment with a HV pump, I don't know what happened to the one I had laying around, I can't find it. The oil pressure driving to work this morning though running at 180*F stayed above 50psi
        Escaped on a technicality.

        Comment

        • Scott Liggett
          No Life Outside BangShift.com
          • Oct 2007
          • 21561

          #574
          Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

          I had a similar experience when the car was at Westech. The plastic tubing broke at the engine fitting while we were prepping the car for the runs. Good thing it happened then and not at full throttle on a pull.


          I'm not a Buick expert by any means, but I seem to remember the stock oiling system wasn't that great.
          BS'er formally known as Rebeldryver

          Resident Instigator

          sigpic

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          • TheSilverBuick
            ALMOST Spidey !
            • Nov 2007
            • 22145

            #575
            Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

            Originally posted by Rebeldryver
            I'm not a Buick expert by any means, but I seem to remember the stock oiling system wasn't that great.
            Near as I can tell it's a volume issue. Too many places for the oil to go before the rear cam and main bearings, that's why openning up the oil passages is recommended.
            Escaped on a technicality.

            Comment

            • stage1scott
              Superhero BangShifter
              • Dec 2007
              • 1281

              #576
              Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

              Originally posted by TheSilverBuick
              I have a 60 psi spring in there now (thought about trying the 40psi spring...), but the booster plate blocks off a significant portion of the return to it. I have long ago ground a passage on the oil pump cover to help bleed off pressure, didn't help me here though :P I may or may not experiment with a HV pump, I don't know what happened to the one I had laying around, I can't find it. The oil pressure driving to work this morning though running at 180*F stayed above 50psi
              wow-that WAS a mess!! the high volume pump is guaranteed to kill your distributor gear-in less than 500 miles-and it is subsequently hard on the camshaft side of that gear mating-ask me how I know :o your pressure should be good at over 50/180 degrees.
              67 Fairlane 434 ci/464 hp/488 tq-RIP
              05 GTO torrid red/red gut, LS2, Auto (my knees hurt!)

              Comment

              • DanStokes
                Ancient LSR Guy
                • Oct 2007
                • 28705

                #577
                Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

                If you're gonna get SERIOUS with a BBB, they tell me you need to block the main oil galley with a piece of tubing and then redrill it with smaller holes at the appropriate places.Evidently, Buick squirts too much oil in unnecessary places, which works fine in stock and near-stock situations, but starves the bottom end in big HP applications. T/A, Poston, and others have refined this mod to a fare-thee-well. Having never built a big HP BBB I don't have specific info, but that's the lore, anyhow. Aren't you sorry you asked?

                Dan
                Originally posted by Rebeldryver

                I'm not a Buick expert by any means, but I seem to remember the stock oiling system wasn't that great.

                Comment

                • TheSilverBuick
                  ALMOST Spidey !
                  • Nov 2007
                  • 22145

                  #578
                  Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

                  I will be very happy with 50psi at 2,200rpm, and satisfied with 40psi at 2,000rpm. It's the shade under 40psi at 2,200rpm that keeps me from being at ease cruising down the highway.

                  I ran the booster plate on my Centurion for about a year before I decided to remove it because I got tired of letting it idle and warm up for ten minutes or more before driving it. It would high idle at ~900rpm and 80psi, and with just a whisper on the throttle it would max the guage out, once warmed up the pressure was fine. When I regasketing/bearing it last summer the distributor gear and cam gear looked fine. Who knows how many miles on the dist. gear, and the cam has 50,000+miles. I hadn't ran an HV kit on it though. Even now it runs 50psi@2500rpm fully warmed up.

                  Dan, are you sure you aren't thinking of the Olds engine?
                  Escaped on a technicality.

                  Comment

                  • DanStokes
                    Ancient LSR Guy
                    • Oct 2007
                    • 28705

                    #579
                    Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

                    Nope. Although the Olds may have gotten the same treatment sometimes. Those HUGE Olds bearings can sling some oil.

                    I remember reading a HRM article done at Kenne-Bell showing particulars of this mod. It was supposed to make the engine good for 87 Kazillion HP - or up until the block split, which ever happens first. Anyone know how much power a BBB will support? I'm guessing it's a LOT - it's a STOUT block.

                    Dan

                    Comment

                    • TheSilverBuick
                      ALMOST Spidey !
                      • Nov 2007
                      • 22145

                      #580
                      Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

                      Originally posted by DanStokes
                      Nope. Although the Olds may have gotten the same treatment sometimes. Those HUGE Olds bearings can sling some oil.

                      I remember reading a HRM article done at Kenne-Bell showing particulars of this mod. It was supposed to make the engine good for 87 Kazillion HP - or up until the block split, which ever happens first. Anyone know how much power a BBB will support? I'm guessing it's a LOT - it's a STOUT block.

                      Dan
                      I hear once you get much above 600Hp the block starts flexing pretty badly, might even split :o Now with the block girdle it's anybody's guess. I'm not too worried about it for my street cars ;) I'll try and stay under 500Hp.
                      Escaped on a technicality.

                      Comment

                      • stage1scott
                        Superhero BangShifter
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 1281

                        #581
                        Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

                        it's not the booster plate, but the longer HV pump gears that kill the dist and cam gear.
                        67 Fairlane 434 ci/464 hp/488 tq-RIP
                        05 GTO torrid red/red gut, LS2, Auto (my knees hurt!)

                        Comment

                        • SuperBuickGuy
                          No Life Outside BangShift.com
                          • Jan 2008
                          • 32271

                          #582
                          Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

                          I keep wondering if a hybrid oil-scaveging system might be what a 455 Buick needs... you have the oil pickup that runs to the front on the driver side, and the oil goes back into the block on the passenger side - so why not run a belt driven oil pump, get rid of at least 4 90 degree bends and be able to tune the oil pressure to whatever floats your boat (or Buick as the case may be)?

                          Doing it all wrong since 1966

                          Comment

                          • CTX-SLPR
                            Legendary BangShifter
                            • Jan 2008
                            • 6011

                            #583
                            Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

                            I put my oil into the block via the old oil pressure sensor hole that's been opened to 3/8in NPT. On the V6 that cuts out a lot of the 90's though I'm still 90 to the main oil gallery.
                            Central TEXAS Sleeper
                            USAF Physicist

                            ROA# 9790

                            Comment

                            • TheSilverBuick
                              ALMOST Spidey !
                              • Nov 2007
                              • 22145

                              #584
                              Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

                              I've thought about the external belt driven oil pump idea before too. Then see about adapting a chevy water pump to it or something.
                              Escaped on a technicality.

                              Comment

                              • stage1scott
                                Superhero BangShifter
                                • Dec 2007
                                • 1281

                                #585
                                Re: The Silver Buick's well Silver Buick!

                                Originally posted by TheSilverBuick
                                I've thought about the external belt driven oil pump idea before too. Then see about adapting a chevy water pump to it or something.
                                Bruce Kent has used this setup (external pump) a number of times on his race cars with a meizre electric water pump
                                67 Fairlane 434 ci/464 hp/488 tq-RIP
                                05 GTO torrid red/red gut, LS2, Auto (my knees hurt!)

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