Pro-touring, form or function?

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

When my Javelin is done, I would love to participate in something Chad describes.
I am currently finishing up body assembly, and have started suspension assembly. Purchased a brake kit from Aerospace, and can’t wait to bolt it to the chassis.
I’m not fabricating a custom adjustable panhard bar, fitting rear sway bars and boxing control arms, etc, etc, to park the car in a field and sit next to it in a lawn chair!

Hey fast ed, when my car is done maybe the two of us will get together somewhere on this side of the country and have a go at it for fun. My car also is not going to be a radical PT car, just the basics as you have done.

[squirrel]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

more like amateur touring, than pro touring? I can dig it...

[BangShiftChad]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

One thing I do disagree with that some of you have commented on is cost. While there are a lot of parts out there that do great things and cost a ton of money, there are also low cost alternatives. I built a '66 Chevelle for a friend of mine that has 500hp, an overdrive, 4 wheel discs, 17's, a stereo and a/c and the most "extreme" part on it is the Hotchkis rear arms. It's go bushings, Eibach springs, 11.5 inch discs with GM calipers up front, 11.5 Ford Explorer type brakes in the rear, and a combo of Helwig and GM swaybars. The front is a WS6 Trans Am swaybar that bolts right on and is $11 at pick your part. The most expensive things on this build were the engine and trans. It's a 406 from American Speed, and a 700r4 from Phoenix racing transmissions. This car handles awesome, stops way way better than I was expecting, and it fun to drive. Plus, with 4.11 gears out back it feels like 4.56's due to the low 1st in the 700. But it's got overdrive so it's still fine on the highway. Great car, and it didn't cost $50k or more to build. Would you guys want a low buck handling, how to show? I have some tricks on things you can adapt and save money with.

Plus, if an event like this happened, wouldn't you want to be the lowbuck guy that came out and kept up with the high dollar cars? Or were only a second or two off their time for a tenth the money?

[joebogey]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

Chad I think that's the biggest issue, is there are cars out there like the Chevelle that get looked over, and the pro-bling crowd gets the coverage. I would be absolutely interested in adapting junkyard parts to anything to improve the handling/stopping, etc.

[fast Ed]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

Hey fast ed, when my car is done maybe the two of us will get together somewhere on this side of the country and have a go at it for fun. My car also is not going to be a radical PT car, just the basics as you have done.

Sounds cool, all we would need to add is a Mustang, a Camaro, a Firebird, and a Challenger, then we can pretend we are old time Trans-Am racers. ;D


cheers
Ed N.

[milner351]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

Chad - you've just defined how I like to do things -- be competitive for a tenth the price of the guys with enough limit on their AMEX to just order everything from Summit and bolt it all together.

I'm all for mixing off the shelf parts to create a better ride, and you can't beat the salvage yard.... I even buy reclaimed premixed antifreeze and used batteries at our local yard - unfortunately they don't have any old vehicles there, all late model stuff.

[Matt Cramer]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

I agree on some level. The trend toward big wheels came from the need to clear big brakes, but has turned into a style more than anything. Most of the cars that do have all the good handling parts, big brakes, power, etc. don't use them EVER. HR and several manufacturers had discussions for the past several years about doing a shootout much like a Drag Week event but for Pro Touring/ Handling cars. They don't have the time or the budget to do it.

We don't have the time, but I can get the support. Is anyone interested in something like that? I know you are interested in the coverage, but would anyone participate?

If it were on the East Coast and gave me enough time to finish the Dart, I'd participate for sure.

[milner351]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

Low buck handling / disc brake upgrade shows would be great.

I know trying to put all the applications in one place would be crazy - but picking a few projects to do would be cool....

What off the shelf rotors fit old drum spindles on such and such year of this model,
crown vic cop rear brakes fit this old series rear end with such and such a bracket, yada yada...

[cal67ss396]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

One thing I do disagree with that some of you have commented on is cost. While there are a lot of parts out there that do great things and cost a ton of money, there are also low cost alternatives. I built a '66 Chevelle for a friend of mine that has 500hp, an overdrive, 4 wheel discs, 17's, a stereo and a/c and the most "extreme" part on it is the Hotchkis rear arms. It's go bushings, Eibach springs, 11.5 inch discs with GM calipers up front, 11.5 Ford Explorer type brakes in the rear, and a combo of Helwig and GM swaybars. The front is a WS6 Trans Am swaybar that bolts right on and is $11 at pick your part. The most expensive things on this build were the engine and trans. It's a 406 from American Speed, and a 700r4 from Phoenix racing transmissions. This car handles awesome, stops way way better than I was expecting, and it fun to drive. Plus, with 4.11 gears out back it feels like 4.56's due to the low 1st in the 700. But it's got overdrive so it's still fine on the highway. Great car, and it didn't cost $50k or more to build. Would you guys want a low buck handling, how to show? I have some tricks on things you can adapt and save money with.

Plus, if an event like this happened, wouldn't you want to be the lowbuck guy that came out and kept up with the high dollar cars? Or were only a second or two off their time for a tenth the money?

And this is an example of exactly what our hobby needs to get back to. I believe the magazines have influenced our purchases way more than we want to admit. And get back to the junkyard bolts on that make our hobby affordable.

Chad, I would be really nice to see a feature done on the car you talking about.

[Loren]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

Pop Rod slalom-tested a relatively mild Mustang II (yes, the Pinto-based car) that turned out to be one of the fastest cars they ever did.

My '70 El Camino handles excellent for a big fat car, not a single aftermarket suspension part save bushings. Stock sway bars, Caprice spindles, 1LE brakes, rr discs from a Seville. Took 3 hours to modify the front a-arms for the spindles and save $300 on GW parts. Dodge half-ton truck shocks, widened steel wheels. I don't go around racing much anymore but once took on a '90s Z-28 and we were pretty even. The best money I ever spent on making a car handle was simply a how-to book from back when, not writing big checks for aftermarket parts.

It can be done cheap

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

Ok then, so far we have a tentative 2009 east-of-the Mississippi event with a Cougar, Javelin, and a Dart…..

I think the cost to set up a good handling car is perceived to be high. In actuality it’s not, or doesn’t need to be anyway.
Sway bar kits are only a couple hundred bucks, There are a ton of options for bigger brakes. Heck, I even found several kits for my AMC! I can’t imagine what’s out there for a Mustang?

[dieselgeek]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

From my observation, so many of these big dollar cars run like ass when viewed in person, unfortunately since most of us come up with "parts wish lists" just from what we see in the magazines, on TV, or online... people tend to think they need the "big badass brake kit" when a properly adjusted upgraded set of OEM brakes off the next heaviest car in the family, will do just fine.


if you're into EFI and engine management, right now what can be built from junkyard parts can do the same amazing stuff as the big dollar Motec stuff, but some guys out there read about it on the internet and feel they "just gotta have it." or see that some guy who won a race has "XYZ system" so suddenly, that is "what all the big dogs run" media really has a way of confusing the average car guy on what's necessary to achieve their goals for a project. If someone can build a car that runs 9.40's on strictly junkyard and secondhand parts... then the "Super Pro touring" camaro BETTER be running deep into the 8s, pull 3 gs on the skidpad, etc.

[squirrel]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

The intrinsic problem Scott is that you can't get any advertising revenue from junkyards, so magazines have to push the expensive nice new parts.

[min301]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

I'm not into posers, in any form.

[fast Ed]

Re: Pro-touring, form or function?

Also to add, IMO the place to spend the money is on tires. Put on the best tires you can afford, that is all there is between your lump of steel and the road. I would rather have a POS car with great tires, than a great car with POS tires.


cheers
Ed N.