Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

[std]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

What are numbers are you're setting the caster and camber to? Are you wearing off the outside of the front tires?

[Scott Liggett]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

F*** if I know. I didn't align the car. I do wear off bits of tread every time I turn left to lock getting it into the driveway. It also tracks dead straight at 100 mph.

[Tazracing]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

Sounds like it's time for some Global West UCA to fix the camber or lack of

frame has cupped..
common on these

Not heard this expression before...what does it mean "frame has cupped"? What causes it?

the frame cups as holding up the engine/tranny and the cossmember bends forcing the upper a arm mount in and the lower out..
as the only other frame support is the core support tat is in rubber and most times not tight
this is worse in bbc cars but happens to all frames of this type...
to the point tat you run out of shims you can install to get it into spec..

50 years of potholes and engine weight causes this.. a date with a frame machine fixes this

I've never seen that, at least on the cars in Cali.

I've looked at Globa West's front end pieces and I wasn't convinced they improved camber caster angles. The guys I talked to didn't seem to know either. Since they don't have a test car that actually does any autocrossing or track days with the pieces makes me even more suspect.

dad fixes alot of old cars.. total body work..
first thing he does it ,hit it with the rack(frame machine) even fair weather no rust cars have this..
good luck

[std]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

F*** if I know. I didn't align the car. I do wear off bits of tread every time I turn left to lock getting it into the driveway. It also tracks dead straight at 100 mph.

Well let me throw out what I'm thinking. Since you drive it on the street all the time you can't have a lot of negative camber or you'll wear the inside of your tires, but you need more negative when you autocross or turn into your driveway at a high rate of speed. More castor will give you more camber when you turn.

The stock specs are probably something like 1/4 degree positive camber, 1/2 degree positive castor and 1/8 toe in. Have your alignment guy set the camber at 0-1/4 degrees negative and try to get 2 1/2 or 3 degrees positive castor. The more the better. 1/8 toe in is probably fine. The better your suspension bushings are, the less to in you need.

[Scott Liggett]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

Mal was in town this weekend. He was nice enough to deliver some extra Impala parts I bought some time ago after the last accident happened. I was supposed to get this part of the front end when I had the last accident four years ago, but these parts somehow got misplaced when I went to get them. The fenders that go with this stuff is on the car. DF got the hood. Same car gave up it's 12 bolt rear diff that is now on the Caprice. I'm supposed to get the rear bumper later. I'll end up owning half of this car before the year is out.

Funny thing is, I nearly bought this whole car before moving to LA 12 years ago. Mal and I were talking about the body rot and general ugliness of my car when he mentioned this '65 Impala convertible (non SS) sitting next to a barn. We talked about taking that body off it's frame and putting it on my chassis that I nearly finished rebuilding already. I even drove by to take a look at it. It was a teal car with black top and white interior. It also was an AC car. I could've got it for damn car for $1500 and should have. But, I was queasy about getting a convertible that had sitting outside so long. Turns out I was an idiot. Even the top was still decent. Mal's buddy and neighbor bought it and used parts of it to restore his 65 SS convertible.

Here's the grille, radiator support, headlights (all T3's), buckets, header panel, wiring harness, hood latch, brackets and the AC condensor. I paid $100 for the lot. I'm supposed to get the rear bumper and headlight eyebrows later.


The condensor's fins are really deteriorated. I think it's useless. The radiator spacer is still there.


The wiring harness, horn relay are all still there. Not sure about that bracket on the support next to the radiator support. The windshield washer tank was on the inner fender.


Usually this side of the radiator support gets nasty because of the battery leaking all over the place. This side just has a million black widow eggs.

[milner351]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

Great score Scott!

I agree - that condenser looks like it's ripe for replacement.

I never thought about your car beign teal - but after looking at those parts and thinking about that hot brunette by the front of one that color - I'm starting to like the idea.

[DanStokes]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

My '65 SS convert was the dark teal w/white top and interior. Probably the prettiest car I ever owned - but the 283/PG was pretty puny.

Dan

[Huskinhano]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

Sounds like it's time for some Global West UCA to fix the camber or lack of

frame has cupped..
common on these

Not heard this expression before...what does it mean "frame has cupped"? What causes it?

the frame cups as holding up the engine/tranny and the cossmember bends forcing the upper a arm mount in and the lower out..
as the only other frame support is the core support tat is in rubber and most times not tight
this is worse in bbc cars but happens to all frames of this type...
to the point tat you run out of shims you can install to get it into spec..

50 years of potholes and engine weight causes this.. a date with a frame machine fixes this

I've never seen that, at least on the cars in Cali.

I've looked at Globa West's front end pieces and I wasn't convinced they improved camber caster angles. The guys I talked to didn't seem to know either. Since they don't have a test car that actually does any autocrossing or track days with the pieces makes me even more suspect.

I can appreciate that. The only thing I can say about GW is from what I've learned from talking to a guy who was an engineer for them on a Mustang forum I hang out at to. On Mustangs they have notoriously bad geometry. What they have done on the Mustang was to shorten the arm by about .25" and then add a spacer between the arm shaft and the body. Also they have paid close attention to the roll center to get it in the correct spot in it's relocated mounting (1.380" down from stock). Most of the other companies seem to be content on making a fancy looking arm that replicates the stock but the ball joint angled differently to allow the UCA to be mounted even lower for more caster gain while really not paying attention to roll center.

Hopefully GW has put the same thought into Impy arms.

[Scott Liggett]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

Sounds like it's time for some Global West UCA to fix the camber or lack of

frame has cupped..
common on these

Not heard this expression before...what does it mean "frame has cupped"? What causes it?

the frame cups as holding up the engine/tranny and the cossmember bends forcing the upper a arm mount in and the lower out..
as the only other frame support is the core support tat is in rubber and most times not tight
this is worse in bbc cars but happens to all frames of this type...
to the point tat you run out of shims you can install to get it into spec..

50 years of potholes and engine weight causes this.. a date with a frame machine fixes this

I've never seen that, at least on the cars in Cali.

I've looked at Globa West's front end pieces and I wasn't convinced they improved camber caster angles. The guys I talked to didn't seem to know either. Since they don't have a test car that actually does any autocrossing or track days with the pieces makes me even more suspect.

I can appreciate that. The only thing I can say about GW is from what I've learned from talking to a guy who was an engineer for them on a Mustang forum I hang out at to. On Mustangs they have notoriously bad geometry. What they have done on the Mustang was to shorten the arm by about .25" and then add a spacer between the arm shaft and the body. Also they have paid close attention to the roll center to get it in the correct spot in it's relocated mounting (1.380" down from stock). Most of the other companies seem to be content on making a fancy looking arm that replicates the stock but the ball joint angled differently to allow the UCA to be mounted even lower for more caster gain while really not paying attention to roll center.

Hopefully GW has put the same thought into Impy arms.

I noticed that a lot of companies just copied what Shelby did 45 years ago, or they end up with Mustang II geometry on Mustangs. I'm hoping to do something different without paying $2000 for A arms and strut rods without any real assurance that they are re engineered for better handling.

[Scott Liggett]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

I fired the Impala up today to charge the battery and move fluids around. The throwout bearing is howling too when in nuetral. Push the clutch pedal and it shuts up. I'll a new one to the parts list.

[DanStokes]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

Scott - that sounds like an inputr shaft bearing if I'm following correctly. When you push in the clutch pedal the throwout bearing is engaged and the input shaft is disengeged.

Dan

[Scott Liggett]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

I'm pretty sure the input bearing is wasted from the racket the trans is making. When I change to the scattershield, I'm getting a bellhousing alignment tool. Something tells me its out of whack even though I dont get odd wear on the pilot bushing.

[jays67]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

Scott - that sounds like an inputr shaft bearing if I'm following correctly. When you push in the clutch pedal the throwout bearing is engaged and the input shaft is disengeged.

Dan

Throw out bearing will do that too if it is in Netural (no pedal pressure) the bearing may not spin then when you push the pedal in the bearing spins and makes noise.

the bellhousing aligment tool is not a bad Idea eather
my sheild was pretty far out if you just bolt it to the dowls

good luck hope it all works out well I dig this car

[Scott Liggett]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

Scott - that sounds like an inputr shaft bearing if I'm following correctly. When you push in the clutch pedal the throwout bearing is engaged and the input shaft is disengeged.

Dan

Throw out bearing will do that too if it is in Netural (no pedal pressure) the bearing may not spin then when you push the pedal in the bearing spins and makes noise.

the bellhousing aligment tool is not a bad Idea eather
my sheild was pretty far out if you just bolt it to the dowls

good luck hope it all works out well I dig this car

Mine makes noise in nuetral with the clutch out, not in. Any pressure on the pedal quiets the T/O bearing down.

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

In either case, throw out bearings are cheap and the trans is coming out anyways.