Rebeldryver's '65 Impala SS Black Betty

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  • Scott Liggett
    No Life Outside BangShift.com
    • Oct 2007
    • 21561

    #1606
    This is what I did yesterday to check the toe in after the car felt really wonky on the freeway on Saturday morning. Even though I was driving in the rain on a grooved roadway, the car felt strange and not safe. Since I am too poor to keep taking the car to the alignment shop to check the toe in. So, I decided to check the toe setting using the old string method.

    This is what I used to do this test. A roll of string, duct tape (Gotta use duct tape!!) and 1/2" wrenches and sockets. I also used a big pair of channel locks and will show it later.


    First thing I did was to take an old 4x6 board I had in the wood pile and cut it's length in half. Then I set the front tires on the wood blocks. The reason is that I needed the extra room under the car to work and the car needed to be resting with it's weight on it's tires.

    Next, I ran the string from the rear quarter panel, across both tires and up to the front valance. Going across the rear tire allows a straight line up to the front tire.


    You can look down at the string going across the front of the tire to see if the string is touching the rear of the tire and not the front; it's toed in. Or, if the string is hitting the front of the and not the rear; it's toed out. Unless you are road racing your car and not driving on the street you want a bit of toe in. Usually about 1//8" to 3/16" is good for a street car. My left tire looked good, but the right front was toed out a bit.


    If you look closely, you can see how the string is hitting the right side of the right front tire, but not the left; or the back of the tire. It was toed out about 3/8". Not sure how it got that way as everything was tight under the car.



    To adjust the toe, you need to loosen the bolts on the tie rod sleeve and turn the sleeve to pull the tie rods closer together to toe it out, or turn it the other way to push the tie rods farther apart to toe it in. (This is a rear steer car, the steering linkage connects to the back of the spindle. If your car has front steer, you need to do the opposite of this.) Also, take notice how much thread is sticking out of the sleeve on the left side of the car.


    The right side tie rods are much closer together than right side which I plan to solve after I adjust both sides. \

    I set the toe in about 1/8" on both sides, then I wanted to even out the length of the tie rods to even out the turn radius side to side. I rotated the right side sleeve in 8 turns, then the left side out 8 turns. Then, I rechecked the toe in adjustments to make sure they didn't move. Finally, I tightened up the bolts on the sleeves. That finished under the car.

    But, the steering wheel now looked like this. Out of whack. Now, a pro suspension guy could straighten out the wheel by moving the tie rod sleeves on way or the other. But, I didn't want to risk screwing up my adjustments, so I just pulled the steering wheel instead.


    If you ever saw the remake of "Gone in Sixty Seconds", you saw Nicholas Cage showing how easy it is to remove a Grant steering wheel. All you need to do is remove the five allen screws and off it comes with the trim ring. That wire is the horn wire. Don't touch it to metal or the neighbors will get mad at you again.


    Pulling off the wheel and trim ring, this what you see. The three small bolts hold the adapter to the column hub. The large nut holds the adapter and column hub to the column and keeps the steering wheel from falling off in your hands. A horrible feeling. See the stamped '"UP" mark. It's supposed to be pointing straight up.


    Taking off the adapter, you can see the column hub. It also is stamped with "UP" and it's upside down too.


    Use a steering wheel puller to get the hub off. I used a gear puller because all my bolts for my steering wheel puller have vanished. It popped right thanks to being removed a few times already. If you are pulling the original steering wheel that has never been off the car; it's a bit more difficult.


    I reinstalled the hub with the "UP" pointing up.


    Next the adapter is straight up now too. Watch for the horn wire doesn't touch anything metal.


    The steering wheel back on. The horn wire gets reattached to the horn button and put back in the steering wheel. This will take only ten minutes if you don't stop to take pictures every minute.

    Last edited by Scott Liggett; January 28, 2013, 11:52 PM.
    BS'er formally known as Rebeldryver

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    • langleylad
      Superhero BangShifter
      • Jul 2008
      • 1694

      #1607
      How does it handle now ?

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      • squirrel
        Benevolent Ruler of the Universe
        • Nov 2007
        • 19334

        #1608
        Interesting. The "right" way to deal with the steering centering is to center the steering gear, make sure the column is properly indexed to it, then make sure the wheel is properly indexed to the column. Then adjust the tie rods so the wheels are aligned straight ahead, when the steering wheel is centered.

        See the little line on the end of the steering shaft, where the steering wheel attaches? that's supposed to be "up".

        The reason for all of this nonsense, is that the steering gear has a "high point" in the center of it's travel, and it has some play if it's not at the center. This is because of how the gears are machined. If you drive with the steering box not centered, you add some play to the steering. Not to mention that you can't turn as sharp in one direction, as in the other.
        My fabulous web page

        "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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        • SuperBuickGuy
          No Life Outside BangShift.com
          • Jan 2008
          • 32246

          #1609
          Originally posted by squirrel View Post
          Interesting. The "right" way to deal with the steering centering is to center the steering gear, make sure the column is properly indexed to it, then make sure the wheel is properly indexed to the column. Then adjust the tie rods so the wheels are aligned straight ahead, when the steering wheel is centered.

          See the little line on the end of the steering shaft, where the steering wheel attaches? that's supposed to be "up".

          The reason for all of this nonsense, is that the steering gear has a "high point" in the center of it's travel, and it has some play if it's not at the center. This is because of how the gears are machined. If you drive with the steering box not centered, you add some play to the steering. Not to mention that you can't turn as sharp in one direction, as in the other.
          x2

          I suspect your left tire was the one not tracking true. It's also pretty easy to knock a car out of alignment

          one other little bit - if your wheels are bent, the string method won't be that accurate. Use your jack stands to make a square around your car - then run a string around the jack stands. Measure off the rim to the string
          Last edited by SuperBuickGuy; January 29, 2013, 07:09 AM.
          Doing it all wrong since 1966

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          • malc
            Legendary BangShifter
            • Oct 2007
            • 5333

            #1610
            Bent tie rod end ?

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            • squirrel
              Benevolent Ruler of the Universe
              • Nov 2007
              • 19334

              #1611
              kinda looks like that might have something to do with it
              My fabulous web page

              "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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              • Scott Liggett
                No Life Outside BangShift.com
                • Oct 2007
                • 21561

                #1612
                More than one alignment shop has said that it is fine. I am not so sure. I am planning to replace the tie rods and sleeves. Also, going to replace the idler arm.
                BS'er formally known as Rebeldryver

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                • Scott Liggett
                  No Life Outside BangShift.com
                  • Oct 2007
                  • 21561

                  #1613
                  Originally posted by squirrel View Post
                  Interesting. The "right" way to deal with the steering centering is to center the steering gear, make sure the column is properly indexed to it, then make sure the wheel is properly indexed to the column. Then adjust the tie rods so the wheels are aligned straight ahead, when the steering wheel is centered.

                  See the little line on the end of the steering shaft, where the steering wheel attaches? that's supposed to be "up".

                  The reason for all of this nonsense, is that the steering gear has a "high point" in the center of it's travel, and it has some play if it's not at the center. This is because of how the gears are machined. If you drive with the steering box not centered, you add some play to the steering. Not to mention that you can't turn as sharp in one direction, as in the other.
                  I went through all this when I replaced the steering box years ago.
                  BS'er formally known as Rebeldryver

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                  • ImpalaSam
                    Hero BangShifter
                    • Nov 2007
                    • 214

                    #1614
                    Have you ever heard of using 67-70 steering parts on the 65-66's? Seems like I read somewhere that there were some upgrades and the parts will interchange. Might be worth looking into.

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                    • Huskinhano
                      Legendary BangShifter
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 5456

                      #1615
                      Originally posted by squirrel View Post
                      Interesting. The "right" way to deal with the steering centering is to center the steering gear, make sure the column is properly indexed to it, then make sure the wheel is properly indexed to the column. Then adjust the tie rods so the wheels are aligned straight ahead, when the steering wheel is centered.

                      See the little line on the end of the steering shaft, where the steering wheel attaches? that's supposed to be "up".

                      The reason for all of this nonsense, is that the steering gear has a "high point" in the center of it's travel, and it has some play if it's not at the center. This is because of how the gears are machined. If you drive with the steering box not centered, you add some play to the steering. Not to mention that you can't turn as sharp in one direction, as in the other.
                      In addition to what squirrel said with the box not being centered, it's going to effect Ackerman, it won't be the same for a left or right turn of equal degrees turned by the steering wheel. Ackerman is basically toe change. Back in the 70's I worked the parts counter to the mechanics in a Chevy dealer. The mechanic by my counter hated working on 65-70 front ends. He complained the eccentric would slip very easily and change toe. 67 & up Mustangs use the same basic set up and they slip as well. Here's a nice fix for Fords, maybe you could do something similar.The plates are offset drilled to set camber and keep it there. This is sold by www.streetortrack.com

                      Tom
                      Overdrive is overrated


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                      • squirrel
                        Benevolent Ruler of the Universe
                        • Nov 2007
                        • 19334

                        #1616
                        Originally posted by Scott Liggett View Post
                        I went through all this when I replaced the steering box years ago.
                        hmmmm....then why is the "top" mark on the steering shaft pointing down?
                        My fabulous web page

                        "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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                        • Scott Liggett
                          No Life Outside BangShift.com
                          • Oct 2007
                          • 21561

                          #1617
                          I see it. Did you see the tie rods and how the left side was way wider than the right? That was the result of them slipping when I made a hard right onto a freeway on ramp? The alignment shop did not fix that when I had them fix it. The result was the car turning much sharper to the right than to the left.

                          When I change out the idler arms and tie rods, I will follow your advice to recenter the steering box.
                          BS'er formally known as Rebeldryver

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                          • milner351
                            No Life Outside BangShift.com
                            • Nov 2007
                            • 16033

                            #1618
                            Thanks for the education Scott - glad you and the car are in one piece and it will be better soon.
                            There's always something new to learn.

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                            • Scott Liggett
                              No Life Outside BangShift.com
                              • Oct 2007
                              • 21561

                              #1619
                              Had the afternoon off so I got after the leaky header gasket. The Mr Gasket Ultra Seal petrified itself to the header. Had to pull it off to clean it off. An hour chipping away at concrete. Thankfully it was the passenger side which is stupid easy to get in and out. Don't want to do the driver's side until it starts leaking. Replaced the gasket with Felpro 1404's. Much better.
                              BS'er formally known as Rebeldryver

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                              • Runner1972
                                Superhero BangShifter
                                • Aug 2009
                                • 575

                                #1620
                                I've tried them all and the 1404's are the best.
                                "I live for myself and I answer to nobody."

                                -Steve McQueen

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