Positively Retained Axles

**Joe Timney.** · December 27, 2012, 01:04 PM

Tech does not state how to do it, just that it is done. The only thing about c-clip retainers is not if they leak but when!!! If it was my car, I would change the housing end...but that is me!!!

**CTX-SLPR** · December 28, 2012, 05:18 PM

If I had an unlimited budget... I'd go for the housing ends. Unfortunately my budget is threadbare to say the least and I'm trying to follow:
"Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it?"
-Luke 14:28 (NIV)

C-clip eliminators look reasonable since you keep the same axles and drum brakes. However, looks like I could mix and match Ford 8in, GM 7.625, and the original 7.5 parts to make a positively retained, 2.41 geared, 28 spline axle for not a huge amount more. Then again, I can get a complete 8in with 2.78 gears for $150 and cut the brackets off of a G-body rear and weld them on; or use it as the donor for the 7.5 though I'd need a 28 spline carrier.

The car is going to be so much more money than the engine it looks like!

GH · December 29, 2012, 06:30 AM

Be careful about going too high geared for your first try. Just my 2 cents.

**Beagle** · December 29, 2012, 07:44 AM

When I did the budget on a 5000 build, I found the engine was the cheap part. 2/3 of the cost is the car around the engine and getting the HP to the ground.

How wide is it flange to flange?

**Joe Timney.** · December 29, 2012, 09:03 AM

Do you plan on running the car on pavement??? If so, I would suggest losing the 28 spline axles.

**CTX-SLPR** · December 29, 2012, 05:52 PM

Not sure yet on the pavement question. I'm here in CO for another 1.5yrs but after that I could be in OH or FL or who knows where for 2-4yrs. For right now I'm thinking that running it on the salt is the most likely venue. Also I'm not trying to make over 300hp anytime soon.

Gearing, 2.41's will give me 150mph at 5000rpm assuming 100% converter lockup and 28in tires. Change that to some V-rated snow tires in 205/55VR17 and that goes up to ~5500rpm. Considering that's my exit speed for a record in the 140+ region (I came up with that on my own, please correct if needed) and I want to keep the engine under 6000rpm seems like a good gear. If I had taller tires and/or felt more comfortable about reving the engine I might step up to 2.73's.

Now I did some digging and it looks like I could take a Ford 8in out of a 67+ Mustang and cut the ends off and then cut the ends off of a 7.5in 10-bolt and meld the two together if I used a 28 spline carrier out of a later 7.625in 10-bolt with whichever gears I wanted as long as it was the "small" 10-bolt. I was thinking since you want to push the rear tires as close to flush with the fender openings as possible and to reuse the 8in axles, that I'd just splice as much of the 8in housing end onto the 10-bolt as I needed. G-body is 58in brake face to brake face and the 73 Mustang unit I've found locally is 61.25in to the same points. Since 5x4.5in wheels are also common I shouldn't have a problem finding a wheel with the needed backspacing and width to work either.

General thoughts?

**greenjunk** · December 29, 2012, 08:47 PM

I think you're trying to build a rocket ship to go 150mph. Keep it simple. don't mix and match. You could have a fab guy put knew ends on for the same price you would spend on new wheels, tires, and everything it will take to make it work. You'll save a penny and spend a dollar. Spend a dollar and save a penny. a 2.41 is way to tall unless you've got 800hp. Perhaps you could elaborate on your total setup and we can help you with the process. theres just about nothing anyone on here hasn't seen, tried, or thought about. You can start with telling us the car, then we can help you find a rear that may work better.

**CTX-SLPR** · December 30, 2012, 07:30 AM

Classic Production Supercharged, E or F motor depending on the availiblity of parts for the motor.
Motor: Blow through carb on a 231, 252, or 181 Buick V6. Probably 300hp max even with the "big" 252 motor. Probably going air to water intercooler with the reservour in the passengers seat area and the cooler under the hood.
Car: 81 Buick Regal
Trans: TH350C lockup 3spd auto (it's stock in the Regal, 81+ G-bodies never had a stick in the US, and I can't drive a stick on the street much less the salt)Rear: Stock it's a 7.5in, 26 spline, 10-bolt with some form of 2 series gears (up to 3.08).
Target Speed: 140+mph since the record for an E motor is 139.359mph and none for the F.
Rpm limit: The Buick V6 does not like to rev and I don't have the money to really change that greatly, need to keep the max rpm down to under 6000.
Wheels and tires: There are 14, 15, and 16in wheels available for the chassis in really narrow widths. Examples are the 3rd Gen F-body 15x5in spare and the 98+ Blazer 16x4in spare. Since the record and my aspirations are all under 200mph, I'm planning on sticking to V or W rated tires for the drive wheels, maybe front runners for the fronts. Need lots of advise in this area.

Commentary is welcome. Thanks,

**DanStokes** · December 30, 2012, 08:51 AM

Dave (greenjunk) has been really fast and has excellent input. Having spent lots of time at Bonneville and I see all the record setting cars (I work in Impound) I'd agree that, especially at first, you don't need Rocket Science. I know that's difficult when you DO rocket science! After your first trip to the Salt you'll find the things that you really need to upgrade and those things that are just "nice to have's", then pick and choose among them as time and budget dictate.

Also, don't get your heart set on a record on the first visit to the Salt. Bonneville has a way of resetting your humblemeter! Go, run, have fun, and LEARN. The old-timers are really eager to share their knowledge. And of course we'll help where we can.

Dan

**CTX-SLPR** · December 30, 2012, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by DanStokes View Post

Dave (greenjunk) has been really fast and has excellent input. Having spent lots of time at Bonneville and I see all the record setting cars (I work in Impound) I'd agree that, especially at first, you don't need Rocket Science. I know that's difficult when you DO rocket science! After your first trip to the Salt you'll find the things that you really need to upgrade and those things that are just "nice to have's", then pick and choose among them as time and budget dictate.

Also, don't get your heart set on a record on the first visit to the Salt. Bonneville has a way of resetting your humblemeter! Go, run, have fun, and LEARN. The old-timers are really eager to share their knowledge. And of course we'll help where we can.

Dan

I guess I don't have my "heart set" on setting a record but I don't see the point of not atleast trying to get there in the first place. I'll get what I get for HP, it's pretty much the last thing on the list due to the fact that the safety equipment for me and the car is pretty daunting! I'm debating on the slightly higher cost of some of the components of the 181cid motor in exchange for running against something without a record. I do expect someone else to see that there are other (and even easier) combinations that would fit in an F/CPS but who knows if they'll show up.
I like the idea of barebones it this first time out. It'll be pretty much all I can afford I'm sure.

**DanStokes** · December 30, 2012, 07:05 PM

There's a guy named Rod Nestman (I think I spelled that right) who runs a V6 in a sorta Syclone and has pushed it hard enough to find the limits of the stock block. The truck is called the HVAC Express and he runs a Heat & Air business in (IIRC) Cleveland. Anyhow, might be worth dropping him a line as he probably has more LSR experience than anyone with these engines. Tell him I sent you and he'll hang up quickly!

Just a thought

Dan

**CTX-SLPR** · December 31, 2012, 06:32 AM

Dan,

Do you know if he's running a Buick V6 or a Chevy V6? They both share the same general idea of cutting down a 350 into a 90deg V6 but are otherwise pretty much unrelated.

I'd be happy to talk to him about gearing and the like since he's probably a blown E motor racer. Is he racing in E/PS or one of the modified classes?

**DanStokes** · December 31, 2012, 06:47 AM

I think he has run in MP as the Syclone was a factory piece - but I'm guessing. The engine is at least based on whatever came in the Syclone. I thought that was basically the Buick turbo six in the S-15 GMC body - Rod is careful to keep the truck as a GMC and not a Chevy to keep it in class. When I last saw the truck at Bonneville he was running a small Roots-style blower and couldn't keep the heads tight. I think the deck was stretching IIRC.

Dan

**CTX-SLPR** · December 31, 2012, 01:41 PM

That would be a Chevy 4.3L V6 which is 3/4 a 350. Eitherway I might get in touch with him.

Thanks,