700 hp Windsor heads?

[milner351]

Why not just build a bit more conservative set up that will not tax valve train components so much, will cost less, and will be a little slower.....

sure is cheaper and easier to show up and race, not hoping to "win".

[Beagle]

Why not just build a bit more conservative set up that will not tax valve train components so much, will cost less, and will be a little slower.....

sure is cheaper and easier to show up and race, not hoping to "win".

it's cheap - it's a bench build! lol.

this shouldn't be all that hard on valvetrain, the cam mentioned is not really "wild".. if anything it sorta opened my eyes up to what things start adding up to. The individual components aren't that bad, it's all of them together that start hurting.

I'm surprised to not hear more "OUCH"es to go with the carnage pictures. Might be that I'm not enough dog to get off the porch. lmao.

[milner351]

that's when the already balanced stroker short blocks start making a lot of sense.

[Beagle]

that's when the already balanced stroker short blocks start making a lot of sense.

shhh.

[Thumpin455]

My idea of cheap canted valve engines is the .040 over, 4 bolt main, 4V headed Cleveland in the shop. Chuck a 4" stroker kit in it and a solid roller with some good springs and valves. I can have a hard runnin engine for about $4500. Doing it that way isnt a low RPM grunt engine, its a 7000rpm screamer that should still make some bottom end if I fill the intake port floors.

4V heads arent hard to find if you know where to look. Old school build except for the cam profile and intake, would be some serious fun in a Mustang, or better yet my Cougar with a good suspension under it. The thing about the 4V heads is they dont flow really well until you fill them a bit, just too big with dead spots. Way cheaper than Kasse heads, but way down on flow too. You need some relatively serious aftermarket W heads to keep up with stock 4Vs.

[BBR]

Best advice: Sell some cars and pick up a fox roller that already has the chassis work done like the one I linked to in the DW forum. That car is a helluva deal for $3k in my opinion. If starting from scratch with a car that basically has no safety or speed equipment, you are looking at a long build and lots of $$$.

That way you can concentrate on the powertrain and have some fun.

[JeffMcKC]

Buy the head with the correct "Velocity Profile" these are very important words to go by. You cant take a large ported high flowing head and just put a small cam in it, the air speed will be far to slow to fill the cylinder with.

[Beagle]

I'm listening - but have a question. The things I keep quoting are a 225cc intake , does that sound big for a 427?

I'm asking cuz I don't know. It's not a huge CSA for a cleaveland head? I don't think flow sheets win races, but these things seem to have great numbers for a not-huge to my thinking port?

I'm keyboard racing here without a doubt, but appreciate everyone's thoughts!

Velocity profile , looking into it. I figured a flow bench makes that whatever the flow bench says it will be, or maybe I'm not taking the whatever " of hg it's at into my thinking.

[Beagle]

Best advice: Sell some cars and pick up a fox roller that already has the chassis work done like the one I linked to in the DW forum. That car is a helluva deal for $3k in my opinion. If starting from scratch with a car that basically has no safety or speed equipment, you are looking at a long build and lots of $$$.

That way you can concentrate on the powertrain and have some fun.

white car was 1100.00, it's a good candidate I think.

I am planning to farm out the cage, sub frame connectors, and torque boxes this winter. This discussion is purely a result of Jake pulling my chain... lol. Kinda. Stupid beer. Will I miss it for a year?

[TC]

Here's an intake for ya.... Or at least something to drool over........



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yates-Sheet-...3ffe7f&vxp=mtr

[Beagle]

that's probably where I'll f* up if I do this. Think more like:

[JeffMcKC]

High velocity ports are why Pontiac engines make the power they do, where they do. I like to make torque and let the HP fall wherever, mostly because I usually build to stay under 6000. That is the reason why we are concerned more with the low lifts, and cam timing, we want to have usable power through the entire RPM range. Hell my 467 is still making 500ftlbs at 2000rpm.

You dont need the biggest ports to make power, you need the air to move faster so you can make more power everywhere.

They have a very helpful valve angle

[JeffMcKC]

I'm listening - but have a question. The things I keep quoting are a 225cc intake , does that sound big for a 427? NO!

I'm asking cuz I don't know. It's not a huge CSA for a cleaveland head? I don't think flow sheets win races, but these things seem to have great numbers for a not-huge to my thinking port?

I'm keyboard racing here without a doubt, but appreciate everyone's thoughts!

Velocity profile , looking into it. I figured a flow bench makes that whatever the flow bench says it will be, or maybe I'm not taking the whatever " of hg it's at into my thinking.

Dont worry about flow numbers, you design the correct port and it flows what it flows. My Ports are small but "Flow" more than most BBC heads do. But its much more important to have the air going the correct speed to turn the corner and fill the cylinder with the Depression you have. Most guys over head and over cam ( durration) engines. Then they dont run them where they are made to run and they are slower. Look at Stock Eliminator and see how fast they are going to get a idea. People have a lot of fond memories of the 4 barrel Clevland head, they worked better on the 351 than they ever worked on a 302. Its the Rate of acceleration of the engine thats your freind.

Pick a ET you want to run, Pick a HP that it will take to get your car there, Pick a head that will flow the correct amount of air in the profile to make the power needed in the RPM range you are willing to run.

It takes X amount of air to make X power, engines are just air pumps, smaller air pumps need more RPM to pump X air for X HP.

[Beagle]

I think I'm on the same page, need to see if Kaase will share anything about the cam they used, like if I can get something really close from Comp. I'm looking to see if they used a 4.0x bore. I think they did, and it would save me a ton. As much as I think a 4.125 bore sounds sexy, I'm not gonna spin the kind of rpm that I think would make that a real benefit.

I'm pretty sure that a good driver (ha, see me hedging that? I'll blame me) with 650hp in a 3100 pound with driver Fox will turn low 9.9's, it's a matter of money at this point. I really liked EMC's builds because they are making that kind of HP (And then some) in a 2500-6500 range. That's where I want it. I don't want to play grabass with AFR right now - I have a clue already what this head will do, and it fits everything else. The only thing I think will jack me up is an idiotic desire to run a tunnel ram. The 400 block Kaase was using changes the manifold a ton anyway, not the same height. I won't be able to run a 100% recipe motor without going that route, but I'm betting it gets close (as in within 50 hp). They made 691, I'd pee myself with 641.

408" would keep the piston speed down, I'd take the cubic inch loss for peace of mind on piston speed. I may rethink that. This could be doable.

[milner351]

Beags, you'd pee yourself with 500, now just make a decision, and get going..... before you change your mind again!
;-)