Hot weather tune up?

[TC]

I have no doubt that you've had success in these applications, I guess it just comes down to electricity is electricity, and I'm sure the plug can't tell the difference where it's comming from. Since we don't dyno our type of engine what would be your approach be to an honest experiment? Would you just leave a basic "get down the track" type of tune up in and only change the ignition?
Can you change how long the spark occurs in individule cylinders, or just change how long it occurs perriod?

Well since it takes spark energy that is 12x more intense than a regular automotive ignition spark can produce to ignite a 90% mix of nitro, I'd say the only experiment you'll have, is finding out how to empty a motor full of Nitro without killing yourself........

[dieselgeek]

Well since it takes spark energy that is 12x more intense than a regular automotive ignition spark can produce to ignite a 90% mix of nitro, I'd say the only experiment you'll have, is finding out how to empty a motor full of Nitro without killing yourself........

Thanks for the tip Austin Coil.

[dieselgeek]

Can you change how long the spark occurs in individule cylinders, or just change how long it occurs perriod?

Do you mean control the timing? With this setup we could control timing per cylinder, whatever you want to run. It's got timer functions too just like the MSD stuff you run so you can say "retard or advance timing over a period of X seconds" etc. All the stuff you're familiar with. The big improvement here will be spark accuracy, IMO.

[TC]

A/Fuel, before going and getting laughed at, realize this.....

IGN-1A coils are rated at 19 amps and 103mj........

The ProMag 44 is rated at 44amps and 950mj........(this is what each sparkplug sees each time it is fired)

Basically your comparing an electric sparker on a cigarette lighter to an Arc Welder.......

[TC]

DG maybe seeing will make you understand......

[anotheridiot]

I have no doubt that you've had success in these applications, I guess it just comes down to electricity is electricity, and I'm sure the plug can't tell the difference where it's comming from. Since we don't dyno our type of engine what would be your approach be to an honest experiment? Would you just leave a basic "get down the track" type of tune up in and only change the ignition?
Can you change how long the spark occurs in individule cylinders, or just change how long it occurs perriod?

I spent hours talking to Vertex and Mallory about firing the injected nitro. The last mag we ran, the technician explained the differences in the frequency of the spark. They were able to adjust the frequency of the spark the magneto delivered to create a happier spark for the 70-90% we ran in our small block. I cant really tell you it worked better, we were able to spin the starter with 36 volts instead of 48 to get her to fire on alky with a trickle tank, so something changed. I figure you look at electricity on an old oscilloscope and we would have a lower or higher range with a steadier pattern instead of a big peak.

So as far as electricity is electricity, I really cant tell you. I cant tell which is a better coil, but frequency seems to be part of the equation that changes things.

[dieselgeek]

A/Fuel, before going and getting laughed at, realize this.....

IGN-1A coils are rated at 19 amps and 103mj........

The ProMag 44 is rated at 44amps and 950mj........(this is what each sparkplug sees each time it is fired)

Basically your comparing an electric sparker on a cigarette lighter to an Arc Welder.......

A/Fuel isn't getting laughed at, ever. This I can guarantee.

You just compared the current capabilities of a 44 amp mag to ONE COIL. There will be SIXTEEN IGN's on an A/Fuel engine.

I'm confident the IGN1-A's will outrun a 44-amp mag any day of the week. What I am not so confident about, is if we can carry enough battery to handle the step up in ignition capacity. We can always run the IGN1A's at lower dwell and put them back down into Magneto territory if we had to.

If the lame video just posted interests you, I remember a time when Jon Huber (papa jon!) did the spark gap test with a single IGN1-A coil. It covered a 48" gap with no problem.

It'll definitely light your cig. I promise ;-)

[JeffMcKC]

The downside I was talking about earlier is, you'd have to rig up a new crank position sensor and cam pickup - not hard to do, ask CDMBill! - then we'd have to run a box to control the coils themselves, it'd be a pretty simple megasquirt set up for just ignition. Also, you'd have to run a battery as these need power - they're happy at 16v, and they wouldn't need anything more than what the guys who run batteries for their MSD ignitions. Ron Pratt won 5 CHRRs and ran a 16v battery and MSD 7AL ignition on his nitro engines, so I know that part works. But if weight is an issue, it might be a showstopper for you.

So you'd have 8 of these coils with short wires mounted on the valve covers, or nearby with longer wires. Then you'd have a megasquirt box, and a battery. If that works, I'd loan you the megasquirt, do the wiring, help with the crank and cam sensor setup (might as well do an EDIS wheel).

In my mind, a valid test for you is going to be "run it down the track" but we can fire it up in the shop first to get you comfortable with it.

The megasquirt has a tach output that can drive your Racepak's tach input. Although, you could use the megasquirt for all the datalogging you need, maybe save some weight?

[TC]

Hey A/Fuel, how much of a concern is there about hydra-locking the motor when running Nitro??....... Is it a worry and what typically causes it??........

[dieselgeek]

Hey A/Fuel, how much of a concern is there about hydra-locking the motor when running Nitro??....... Is it a worry and what typically causes it??........

I love your tenacity. You just won't give up! damn the torpedoes. I do love this about you Alex.

[CDMBill]

I spent hours talking to Vertex and Mallory about firing the injected nitro. The last mag we ran, the technician explained the differences in the frequency of the spark. They were able to adjust the frequency of the spark the magneto delivered to create a happier spark for the 70-90% we ran in our small block. I cant really tell you it worked better, we were able to spin the starter with 36 volts instead of 48 to get her to fire on alky with a trickle tank, so something changed. I figure you look at electricity on an old oscilloscope and we would have a lower or higher range with a steadier pattern instead of a big peak.

So as far as electricity is electricity, I really cant tell you. I cant tell which is a better coil, but frequency seems to be part of the equation that changes things.

Do you recall what the frequency range or changes were?

To the other ponit it seems you could control individual cylinder length of spark by changing individual coil saturation times on the IGN 1A's? Not to mention clynder to cynder spark timing in terms of the starting point. This is fun.

What's the frequency Kenneth?

[Brian Lohnes]

Hey Scott, I have nothing to add here other than Bourke's 5.255/270MPH rip at Epping last weekend was BAD ASS.

[A/Fuel]

Hey A/Fuel, how much of a concern is there about hydra-locking the motor when running Nitro??....... Is it a worry and what typically causes it??........

Very much a consern....Break anything on the exhaust side of the valvetraine and it will probably make a mess...
If a miss fire happens it usualy drop a hole and the way we are running it will cost us about 5-600 hp.
Through the middle of the run we have about 28 gpm....that is a lot of fuel.
I personally worked on a car that shook the mags off, and they were only held on by the wires, and it ran a 6.00 flat.
I've also seen it twist the mag drive off and had to go pick the intake/injector off of the track.....
I have to think about it more, but once you compress it in an exhaust valve banging (we all are doing it) engine, it might not take that much to light if off anyway.
I'm thinking...not an expert by any means. I just have to justify why I would put a 30k engine to the test.
Another thing, we probably have one of the most powerful a/fuel engine combo's out there. No kidding.
Our engine went to 5000+ all weekend and it got us to the finals in ohio. We were bleeding fuel and taking timing out and Robin still had to peddle it 500ft out (great job!)
I'm all over the clutch right now (my area)

[A/Fuel]

Hey Scott, I have nothing to add here other than Bourke's 5.255/270MPH rip at Epping last weekend was BAD ASS.

I seen that! I think we sold him that crank......270 is kicking ass!

[TC]

I have to think about it more, but once you compress it in an exhaust valve banging (we all are doing it) engine, it might not take that much to light if off anyway.

I was just reading a little about this, they were saying on a Top Fuel car that by half track the sparkplugs are wasted and it's actually firing off just the compression and the glowing red exhaust valves for the rest of the run...........