mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

Nahhh, no such thing. :D

I've been driving the car regularily in the nice weather for two years now, lots of highway miles. I even had to drive over 1/4 mile of gravel road for 6 months last year when my road was torn up.
I'm amazed at how nice the paint under the car is holding up, this is the first I've really washed the underside in the two years the car has been on the road.

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

Got lots done on it yesterday thanks to the help of a good friend (I gotta get pictures of his '64 Dodge on here).
I need to get the exhaust on, change the oil as long as it's in the air and give it a go.

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

Looks like I need a new starter > :'(

[SuperBuickGuy]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

ut oh, what happened?

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

It's 41 years old :P
I was hoping it would go at least 44.
I turned the key and it rolled over for about a 1/2 a second, then the solenoid would just click, same result using the battery from the Durango, so it's not that.
I pulled it off and tried to run it directly from a battery with jumper cables and all I got was sparks and heat > I even tapped it with a hammer to see if it was stuck. Nothing :-\
Another hundred-something on the old VISA, ouch. This little project has gone a bit over budget.

[Tom Slick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

I'd see about rebuilding it - the brushes are dirt cheap. Turn it over by hand about half a turn and then see if the battery will spin it? If the windings aren't open, it may just be a brush issue. BTW, they will get around on the table pretty good if they aren't clamped down... you probably knew that but thought I would share. lol.

Rockauto.com shows one for about 55.00 with the 10.00 core. I'd also check if there is an alternator shop that might repair it for less... ?

http://www.spike.com/full-episodes/l2bsv6/powerblock-muscle-car-red-sled-steering-clutch-and-air-ride-season-4-ep-507

about 12:00 in there's a decent segment on rebuilding starters, very worst you can know what happened to it. ;D

[SuperBuickGuy]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

I'd see about rebuilding it - the brushes are dirt cheap. Turn it over by hand about half a turn and then see if the battery will spin it? If the windings aren't open, it may just be a brush issue. BTW, they will get around on the table pretty good if they aren't clamped down... you probably knew that but thought I would share. lol.

Rockauto.com shows one for about 55.00 with the 10.00 core. I'd also check if there is an alternator shop that might repair it for less... ?

http://www.spike.com/full-episodes/l2bsv6/powerblock-muscle-car-red-sled-steering-clutch-and-air-ride-season-4-ep-507

about 12:00 in there's a decent segment on rebuilding starters, very worst you can know what happened to it. ;D

yep - what he said, most times it's just 3.00 worth of brushes and you're back on the road. If it's a selonoid (sigh) most times it costs more for the selonoid then to get a rebuilt starter....

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

I did spin it around some before I hot-wired it, maybe not half way? I know they dance around, that's why I had it on the floor :D
I remember that episode, That looks totally do-able. great call and something to think about.

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

Monday morning update: There is local-ish place that does rebuilds so with an exchange the cost is $69. I can live with that.
Tom, your comments on the alternator shop reminded me of this place, good call.

I really want one of those cool light-weight starters, but WOW! I had no idea those were THAT much$$$!!

[Huskinhano]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

Did you try www.dbelectrical.com ? I bought a PMS for something like $68 to my door. Does your ca have the Delco or Ford starter? If it's a Ford, there's two versions, a 157 tooth and 164 tooth flywheel. The difference is how far the drive extends out, not the number of teeth on the drive gear of the starter. I didn't see any AMC listings but I'm sure a GM or Ford version would work if you can find a specific model.

[mlcraven]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

It's 41 years old :P
I was hoping it would go at least 44.
I turned the key and it rolled over for about a 1/2 a second, then the solenoid would just click, same result using the battery from the Durango, so it's not that.
I pulled it off and tried to run it directly from a battery with jumper cables and all I got was sparks and heat > I even tapped it with a hammer to see if it was stuck. Nothing :-\
Another hundred-something on the old VISA, ouch. This little project has gone a bit over budget.

Seriously, you have a budget? :o After all these years my wife firmly believes that anything that gets done on old cars comes in increments of $500. I haven't discouraged this, it sometimes works to advantage.

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

Ok, this has been strange. The issue this entire time may not have been the starter after all. It turns out something odd is going on with an electrical ground (I hate electrical crap). ???
Long story short - I did a bit of testing; tracking electricity through the system. I figured out that power was getting to the starter through the start solenoid. Power was getting to the new starter, yet it was doing nothing. I connected a wire from the starter attachment bolt to the chassis and BINGO :o :-\. It turns over. So much electricity was moving through the temporary ground wire that it fried all the plastic shielding on the wire (Man did that stink!)

There is a ground wire from the block to the cross member, but perhaps the cross member isn?t ground to the rest of the chassis. I suppose with paint on everything I there may not be a good ground between those two parts, on an AMC the crossmember is bolted to the frame rails.

I think I?m going to run an additional ground strap from the trans to the trans cross member.

Now that I think about it, before the trans may have been grounding to the chassis through the automatic shifter mechanism?
It was basically a steel bar running from the lever on the trans to the shifter that was screwed to the floor of the car.

[SuperBuickGuy]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

I've had that happen to me before, it's why any car I do has multiple ground straps to the motor....

[milner351]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

Wierd - why then didn't the old starter work when you tested it with jumper cables on the floor? - no problem with a ground then.

Grounds - any time there's an issue with those pesky electrons - check the grounds.

Does the negative cable go straight from the battery to the engine block? The starter is grounded - right to the block - unless there's moocho paint on the block preventing a good starter ground.

I'd had to take off some of that great looking paint - but you got to in order to get a good ground.

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

I don't know :-\ To add to the strangeness, it all worked perfect for the two years I've been driving the car. I only just changed out the transmission, nothing else, UGHH.

Does the negative cable go straight from the battery to the engine block?
Nope, The battery is in the trunk, ground to the chassis. I guess all of those Prothane mounts and shiny paint are good insulators.

I'm going to run to a parts store soon and get a couple of those ground straps and make sure the engine and trans are both attached to the chassis, and yes some paint will need to be sacrificed.