62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

[Thumpin455]

Dont worry about what might have happened to the stock prop valve, it didnt have one. With the single pot 4 wheel drums, it doesnt need one. The single outlet from the MC negates a need for a prop valve, instead it would have had a distribution block.

You need a prop valve with disc/drum and disc/disc, and disc drum you should have a residual valve so the rear drums keep working without pumping it. If you go all disc, then the setup you posted earlier sounds like a plan. If you dont like it, get an adjustable prop valve.

Also if you are running power brakes on this thing, keep in mind the leverage requirement for a manual MC and a power MC is different, at least it is in GM cars. I am not sure about Fords of that vintage, since my Cougar has power disc and there is only one hole in the brake pedal... and its newer. If I remember I will look at the Mustang pedal and see if it has two holes or not, because it had manual drums all the way around with a two pot MC.

If you want some kick ass Ford brakes, find a 67 Cougar or Mustang with the 4 piston calipers. Those things stop like right now, except on gravel roads they just lock up the fronts and you slide into whatever you are trying not to hit.

[Silver68RT]

I had an automotive engineering class back in college where I worked out how to add rear disk brakes to my '72 Charger as a class project. I measured all the pieces of the disk / drum setup, calculated the braking forces, and then then sized the rear disk setup to match. If you feel like running through the math, I can try and find it, or at least the text book I used. The main thing is to make sure that the rears don't lock before the fronts, because then you lose directional stability.

[pintoboy77]

Is there a reason for not going with power brakes because I know the Crown Vics use a single pot MC and no prop. vavle in the newer ones. The race car I'm working on has four wheel disc and man. MC and no prop valve and it stops great and it has a large and a small pot MC like a disc and drum set up. If you need some pics of this set up let me know.

[milner351]

Doug - I would hate to send you into the basement looking through boxes - you need to get your cars ready for spring.
I just threw out a ton of books / boxes / old paper work during the move, and we still have too much stuff.... I'm seriously considering renting a dumpster.

Greg - the crown vics all had dual master cylinders -they just had the plastic body with the single fill point as I recall.
I would appreciate pictures of the race car set up.
SBG also ended up running no prop valve after several iterations on his Buick - I'm not opposed to doing the same - I just figured I'd get the prop valve that matched the rear brakes while I had the chance - Greg - thanks again for the axles!
As for not going power brakes - I'm trying to keep this thing as simple as possible - I can always add power brakes and power steering later if I decide I need it.

[pintoboy77]

John I will get some pics of the race car brakes I have the rear end apart right now,but that is just two calibers and two flex lines I can get all the lines and MC. I did'nt know if place was a problem for the power booster or not I know my Pinto and my Torino both take a small booster. My Pinto when I first built it had power steering and manual brakes so I put power brakes and manual steering I liked the feel better.

[pintoboy77]

John I got some pics of the race car brake system. The MC looks like it came out of a Chysler K car or something simular or it my have came from Wilwood the rest of the brakes did.



There are no check valves or no prop. valve and this thing has great brakes. Hope this helps.

[pintoboy77]

John I was looking in Summit Racing and seen a master cylinder for manual disc brakes that looked like this one,but it says for race use only what the difference would be I don't know it was a 162.00 for the kit. Something to look at.

[82z]

John I got some pics of the race car brake system. The MC looks like it came out of a Chysler K car or something simular or it my have came from Wilwood the rest of the brakes did.



There are no check valves or no prop. valve and this thing has great brakes. Hope this helps.

I ran this same master cylinder on the camaro, it doesn't need a proportioning valve because the master is designed not to use one. The application you want is for an 85ish Dodge ramcharger and I think I paid $40.00 for it ad advance auto with the resivoir.

[milner351]

Interesting indeed - so the master cylinder must have some sort of equalizing valve / pressure / spring / check valve inside it.

I talked with a local street rod builder yesterday - he's been using a nascar type piece which sounds basically like a delay valve - it's plumbed in between the master and the rear brakes, and it applies pressure to the rear a split second after the front and "ramps up" the pressure over a short time to avoid locking up the rears - it's fully mechanical - no electronics (sort of sounds like a trailer brake actuator in it's design) It's $100. He's got it on several different street rods with different weight ratios and brakes and claims it works very well.

Sounds like the master shown above would be a cheaper and Simpler(?) solution..

[TheSilverBuick]

How about you install what you have and see how it works first?

[milner351]

Randal for the win.

I will probably install what I have with NO prop valve first - and see how it works, then go from there, it's just interesting to think about what's going on inside that mystery master cylinder that makes it "not require a prop valve"... hmmm

[TheSilverBuick]

Granted its not my money or time, but it drives me up the wall when people change things with absolutely no baseline reason for changing things. Especially when you ask, "So is it better?" and they answer, "Well I never actually tried the other one." I see that a lot on clutch selections, no basis for pedal feel or how it holds, but have to get super X clutch because it's the "best" when a cheaper stock replacement is good enough and won't eat your flywheel with a ton of metal in the clutch material. Brakes likewise, no idea how it'll stop with your master cylinder and no porportioning valve, but getting into the mind set, getting X part will have to be better! But really don't know unless you actually ran a baseline, which you already own!

/rant

[BBR]

Times a wastin'!!

Get this thing done!

[milner351]

SIR YES SIR!

I'm getting allot of help on this car - soon. I'm still in moving / renovation hell - and I'm making two mortgage payments... that sucks outloud, but I'm getting there.

The plan is to ship the car out for some help - then bring it back and work on final assembly at the new shop, 300 feet from home instead of 8.5 miles - that should speed up my pace.

Any advice on long range ethernet / wireless antennas?

How about long range baby / child monitors?

The new shop is about 300 feet from the house, currently there's no connection between the buildings - except for maybe a phone line - I have to follow up on that.(there's a red phone in the shop with a red light above it - I'm going to see if I can get that hooked up to the house land line - or perhaps use that wiring pair for ethernet????)

[STINEY]

Our baby monitors (2 different sets, 2 different manufacturers) both seemed to have JUST enough range to work from our house to the barn.

I don't have an exact line-of-sight measurement, but its likely less than 300'.......that said, sitting one of those in a window in the house, and in the open door of the shop would increase the range considerably. Doing that gained me enough extra range to work BEHIND the barn at the extreme end of our property - never had a reason to test beyond that.

Those monitors are badass, extremely sensitive. I swear I heard a mouse fart in the other end of the house through one.

I'm blank on the ethernet thing. Got to be something available.