62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

[Beagle]

the removable cross bar iirc is what BBR says is not legal on his?

[SuperBuickGuy]

There is a shop close to me that will bend one up pretty reasonably, it's called windpushers.

the easiest way to tell DOM is the wall thickness... DOM is thinner

from the ebay ad:
Available in .134” wall EWS (electric welded seam), 120” wall DOM (drawn over mandrel) or .083” wall


thus JEGS is EWS

[Bob Holmes]

Frankly, I think your life is worth more than $300.

Assume that you're tumbling down the track, will you feel good about that purchase?

I hate to throw cold water on the "how do I get a cheap rollcage" discussion. But there are very good reasons why anyone that really wants to go fast should spend real time and money creating the greatest opportunity for survivability.

Yep, I'm being a pain in the ass, but I think your life is worth it. This is the last place to skimp.

[milner351]

Bob - I'm never going to fault a guy for trying to save my azz from my own stupidity.

I've never had a roll cage before.

I'm leaning toward what I usually leaning toward, overkill by most standards.... DOM it will be, and mig welded - so CM4130 it won't be. I'm really liking the BDracing stuff out of chicago heights IL, they have some "pro street" options for the rear bars to hug the headliner before going down through the package tray (which is now fully sheet metal covered in my car for the gas tank in the floor fire wall)
and - they have low door bars that may negate the swing out deal.

BBR passed tech in DW with his alston bolt in belt bar.

I'm not in love with 5 point belts - I may very well put in 3 point belts with the top anchor being a cage tube.

It's a street car first, track car second - but I do want to run it on the strip, and down the ohio mile - and maybe even try to follow the shelby club guys around gingerman too. Roll cage won't hurt.

Given the M2 front - I want to tie something through the firewall to the front sub frames (at or in front of) the M2 upper control arm / spring perch.
That is what is making me think that a 6 point isn't enough, having front down bars would really help this factory lightweight unibody that I built "that looks about right" square tube triangulated torque boxes for.

[Shawn Anderson]

If you decide to go with the cage or bar thru jegs let me know, in that area a bit and could saver you shipping.

[1946Austin]

I think you're on the right track. I usually put a rollbar in my cars, even though they rarely see dragstrip duties. I think building a rollbar or rollcage that meets tech for a certain ET that you may not ever run isn't always the best plan. The extra support can be a pain in a street car to try and get around.
I understand what people are saying about not scrimping on safety, but just putting a rollcage in is much safer than running occasionally with no cage, and depending on ET, your car might not even require a cage, so you are being safer with whatever you put in if that's the case. If by chance you get faster than what your cage is legal for, then you need to either stop racing, slow down, or build a better cage.
Just my thoughts on it.

[SuperBuickGuy]

I think you're on the right track. I usually put a rollbar in my cars, even though they rarely see dragstrip duties. I think building a rollbar or rollcage that meets tech for a certain ET that you may not ever run isn't always the best plan. The extra support can be a pain in a street car to try and get around.
I understand what people are saying about not scrimping on safety, but just putting a rollcage in is much safer than running occasionally with no cage, and depending on ET, your car might not even require a cage, so you are being safer with whatever you put in if that's the case. If by chance you get faster than what your cage is legal for, then you need to either stop racing, slow down, or build a better cage.
Just my thoughts on it.

the illusion of safety most dangerous "oh I have a roll bar, so I can hang it out more".... the biggest issue with welded tube is weight - because it's nearly 50% thicker to account for the decreased safety; and in the end of the day, it's a high-speed roll over that will tell you whether you're wife's now a widow.

EWS split under side-load stress. When they split, they no longer have the structural strength to protect from the next hit - the EWS has 50k strength at structural integrity, however, the moment the seam splits, you're suddenly at perhaps as little as 5k or 10k of strength. DOM doesn't have that issue. It keeps bending, but it keeps its strength even after its been bent further. Also, with EWS, you may compromise the strength and inadvertantly crack the seam when you're bending the tube - thus its first hit won't have 50k worth of strength.

EWS is better than nothing, but it has greater weight and creates the illusion of safety... as DOM costs $200 more, I can't imagine a situation where that minimal increase wouldn't be worth it... especially since weight is such a factor in racing

[milner351]

For sure - DOM it will be. Chrome molly is out of the price range, and my skill set - and time required to TIG a cage in the car.

I'm really leaning toward the guys on the south side of chicago - they have the DOM in a "kit" for my car's body style, and they also offer "pro street" options for the rear down bars, and lower side bars that may negate the need to make them removable. I can also make it to their facility on a weekend and check things out and decide exactly what I want to bring home with me.
I want to tie the front end of the car into the cage somehow - if the front hoop / A pillar bars aren't too obtrusive - I'd install those and then tie the front down bars into those under the dash and through the firewall.

[R442]

I went through the same arguements when chosing a rollbar. The goals for my car were simialr to yours and not having anyone to bounce questions off of I ended up with a six point rollbar. When I installed it I lowered the door bars a little for easier entry knowing they werent legal but at my speeds no one has questioned it, they did ding me an for expired seat belt which I replaced. Now I am looking at a major horsepower increase and will be reworking my door bars if not more.

My brother on the other hand has an eight point cage in his 70 Camaro with the stock dash and it is a real PITA to get in and out of to the point that he barely drives it anymore. He is ready to rip the whole thing out so he can enjoy driving it again. His dash stuck out far enough that the front down bars are too close to the seat. If your dash is closer to the A pillar you will have more legroom for getting in and out.

There is no easy answer you need to find your compromise between comfort and safety and being legal at the track. And don't forget about arm rests, door handles and anything else that my be in the path of the side bars.

[pintoboy77]

I have installed a coulpe of roll cages and have found that it is hard to have a track legal cage that has street comfort. At our local track you have to be running 11:40's to need a cage and at least 12's to need a helmet. You may want to check the rules where you plan to run and build the cage around thier rules. The cage here you have to be in the mid 9's before your cage has to be certified unless you are running NHRA.

[SuperBuickGuy]

I went through the same arguements when chosing a rollbar. The goals for my car were simialr to yours and not having anyone to bounce questions off of I ended up with a six point rollbar. When I installed it I lowered the door bars a little for easier entry knowing they werent legal but at my speeds no one has questioned it, they did ding me an for expired seat belt which I replaced. Now I am looking at a major horsepower increase and will be reworking my door bars if not more.

My brother on the other hand has an eight point cage in his 70 Camaro with the stock dash and it is a real PITA to get in and out of to the point that he barely drives it anymore. He is ready to rip the whole thing out so he can enjoy driving it again. His dash stuck out far enough that the front down bars are too close to the seat. If your dash is closer to the A pillar you will have more legroom for getting in and out.

There is no easy answer you need to find your compromise between comfort and safety and being legal at the track. And don't forget about arm rests, door handles and anything else that my be in the path of the side bars.

I won't do another 8 point where I don't completely remove the dash then reinstall it over the top of the bar... a lot more work, but totally worth it IMO. On my Skylark, I was so happy I cut the dash and moved the bars forward, no bruised shin, no getting your foot caught in the bar getting into the car....

[R442]

That was the big reason I went with the six point. I didn't want to rework the dash to do the eight point right.

[BBR]

the removable cross bar iirc is what BBR says is not legal on his?

Yes. I have been lucky in that the tech inspectors have not been too persnickety or have not looked too close. I don't go around advertising it at the track though. lol

It's one of those things I keep meaning to fix.....

[milner351]

Guys I truly appreciate the diaologue - I've never had a cage before so all the input helps.

The falcon has a pretty simple steel dash, putting holes in it won't hurt my feelings - but - being a 60's 2 door sedan - the door openings are fairly large. As the wise Austin pointed out - mocking up a cage with electrical conduit may be the best way to figure out what I want to live with - with seats sitting on the floor before I place them (semi) permanently.

BBR - if there's foam pad covering the joint - who cares? LOL
also - someone 'splian this to me.... why are pinned / removable door bars OK, but not a pinned / removable cross bar?
belt attachment only?
what if I have a three point with the top anchor on a cage tube, no anchors on the cross bar?

[Bob Holmes]

My speculation (and you know what that is worth ) is that the side bars on a drag car are basically to keep you in, not to protect against intrusion, as in a roadracing car. The cross bar provides some (but not nearly as much as a triangulated bar) support to the cage structure in the case of a roll over.