62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

[RAIV70Judge]

Got the new welder hooked up and working, it makes me a better weldor, this welder is much better suited to the sheetmetal work than the big lincoln.

Greg - I have a synchrowave200 Tig - I was considering getting a spool gun for it - but there are lots of situations on a car where I don't think a spool gun would fit.

I only had a few hours Sunday afternoon at the shop.

Core support is fully welded in.

Passenger Strut rod bracket straightened and welded to core support - Driver side is going to take more work to get straight / moved before welding.

Driver's side 1x2 sub frame tube fully welded in on the inside through the floor - this is where the new miller really shined - it put down some great looking welds.... no spitting no spatter.

Hood has been ground again - and second application of de-ruster put on - the liquid doesn't work as well for the deep pits as the stuff Greg used - I have to pick some of that up soon.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]10013[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]10012[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]10011[/ATTACH]

Now those welds look soooo much better!

[milner351]

Dangit.

I dropped the Edelbrock heads at the machine shop yesterday to have the valve tips ground to remove the grooves from previous ill set up use, install new spring seats and springs to 1.800" for the x303 cam, and of course new stem seals and a general inspection..... The guy behind the counter was not a machinist and didn't seem to know much about what went on in the machine shop on the other side of the wall...

"a competition valve job is $175 - that's something like a 7 angle job...."

Then this dude tells me he can't be sure that both the piston and the rod will come out of the press in good condition after pressing the pin out..... GREAAAT. So I didn't leave the piston/rod with him.

Unfortunately the mahle forged piston/ford rod combination I'm going to use has press fit pins.... beggars can't be choosers - these were given to me with very low hours on them - so low I'm going to use the rings and not touch the cylinder walls.

The mahle piston/rod combination is over 130 grams lighter than the TRW forged factory piston/rod combination - SO - getting the crank re balanced is a must.

In order to balance the crank, the balancer needs to know the rod, piston, pin weights separately.

Is there anything wrong with weighing another stock Ford rod of similar vintage without a piston - then subtracting from the total to get the two weights the balancer requires?

I'm willing to sacrifice a '94 hypereutectic piston from a set of 7 with a wounded 8th for the cause.... in that case I'd fire up the torch at home and press the pin out my damneself.

[STINEY]

Some blocks of wood, wifes' oven mitts, pop the hole thing in the oven for an hour then run it to the garage and let Lee tap it out?

Maybe not Lee......and you don't want to do this while your wife is home.....hmmmm.....have a friendly gearhead neighbor?


I'd be willing to bet you won't hurt it, no matter your methods. I've seen some of the roughness on removing/installing press fit wrist pins, some machine shops can get pretty crude.

Any chance of converting to floaters easily/cheaply? Do the pistons have keeper grooves? Or can you get teflon buttons to fit the wrist pins? Light hone with a brake hone until you get a nice fit.....I've torn down engines that had steel on steel pins/rods with no bushings, and they looked fine.

[milner351]

I do have an old electric oven at the shop I kept around for eventual powder coating use......

The way the rods are blued near the pin - I figured it took some serious heat to release the press fit.... like oxy/acet heat - which makes me worry about damaging the piston in the process...

[TheSilverBuick]

Damn. You're an engineer, you know the possibilities of how easily different parts that are the "same" can weigh a few grams different from each other. Odd's are it won't be a tremendous number of grams, but with three parts the there could be a cumulative error, + or -. My question is, why can't he separate them properly and remain in good serviceable condition? Maybe I just don't know enough about machine work, but don't people regularly just upgrade either pistons OR rods with out changing the other, with the expectation the one they want will come out in good shape? Why can't you expect both to come out in good shape?

[milner351]

Agreed on all counts Randal - I was a bit deflated that the machinist was not there when I arrived - thankfully - he knows a lot more than the guy behind the counter. This is the same shop that did some of the machine work on the 302 in the ranger - and it was all done right for a very fair price.

I weighed all the Mahle piston/rods - they are all with in a couple grams of eachother with a total weight of 1200ish grams - so the variance is quite small on a percentage basis.

I'm quite certain with proper press tooling and a careful operator - removing the pin is a no risk affair to any of the related parts.

I could take this approach if I buy the u joint press I've had on my list to buy for years, but this approach still has flaws as he's not using any support between the pin bosses, so conceivably the piston could still bend in on the pressing side, as with any press operation - it's all in the tooling.

This dude is surely resourceful - but I'm guessing he's not reusing those pistons.... probably going to get out the mapp gas torch and ice and slide on the .030" overs next.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpN2ca57YSU

Well - mystery solved - talked with a different guy at the balancer - he said just give him the weight of the totally assembled piston/rod/ring/bearing set up - and he'll balance the crank to that knowing it's an average of the 8 assemblies.

Usually they match weight the rods and the pistons and pins, then add it all up with the rings and bearings, then balance the crank.

In this case I don't need that level of precision - all the assemblies are within a couple grams of eachother as is....

[Bob Holmes]

My machinist told me the same thing when I wanted him to separate a stock forged TRW from the stock forged Ford rod.

[milner351]

Thanks Bob - since this isn't a 8500rpm + effort - I'm going to give the balancing guys the total weight of the piston/rod/ring/bearing/pin combination (an average of all eight) and have them balance the crank/damper/flexplate as an assembly, without match weighting the pistons and rods.

[Bob Holmes]

I think you'll be fine.

[pintoboy77]

Milner the last pressed fit rods I changed I used a gas stove put the piston on the top burner and heat the piston and when you turn the rod side ways the pin just falls out and you do the same to put it back in and no stress of a press. Hope this helps.

P.S. Don't use the one in the house it does put off a smell.

[OldMachinist]

To balance correctly you need to know the separate rotating and reciprocating weights, not just the total weight. They are pressed apart as you can't heat just the pin end of the rod when assembled. The pin will also absorb heat and expand too. Successful removal of pistons by pressing is possible but depends on shape and squareness of the boss around the pin both on the outside and inside. I think the guy who said they can balance correctly with the total weight of the assembly is a hack. You can get "fairly" close if that is good enough for you as you know what the approximate weight of both ends of a stock rod is and use those weights.

[RAIV70Judge]

Screw it my friend.....bolt that sumbeotch together and lets go racin!!! Just kidding, do it right (sigh)..

(said like the comedian Tim Wilson)

[milner351]

Oldmachinist - I agree - the absolute proper way to balance is to match weight both ends of each rod, and the pistons, then get your bob weight and balance the crank.

I think the factory stuff is done on an average basis within some reasonable variance, which is what you'd get using the total weight of the piston, pin, rings, rod bearings, rod, bolts all together as the bob weight for the crank balance.

The balancing shop does good work - they've been around a long time. They much prefer the match weight method as there are fewer unknowns, but given the risk of pulling apart press fit pistons.... I think my best alternative in this case is to use another factory rod to get the end weights, and assume the other rods are similar weights.

Just another reason to go with full floating piston pins!

[Beagle]

If the rods are blue, I think they've been apart before. Heat when you put them together, press them apart. The factory junk didn't get heated with a torch, probably a rod oven. I'd be a little bit afraid of the piston breaking, but they make such a satisfying nerve racking POP right as the pin turns loose. It'll probably slide out the rest of the way pretty easily (mine did). IIRC, they should have a balance pad on the pin end to get them all roughly the same weight.

I think I would mix and match to get the pin end and piston combo as close as I could then worry about overall weight and the big ends, but I may be over/under thinking that. It's the furthest out from the arm and seems like it would have the biggest impact on balance.

voodoo stuff. I look at the machines they do it with and don't get it.

[SuperBuickGuy]

I've never taken pistons apart, but I have stacks of old Buick pistons that the machinist got out without damaging either the piston or the rod so I know it can be done.... however, like Beags, I think my machinist part witch doctor so that might have something to do with it.