O2 Sensor Questions

**SpiderGearsMan** · July 16, 2009, 04:56 AM

Re: O2 Sensor Questions

for closed loop efi or just as a tuning tool ?

you read the pyrometer - cool is rich - hot is lean

Page not found – JS Performance

http://www.jsperformance.ca/product_info.php?products_id=318&osCsid=893f520d8ae8b929b35d95fbcb60d088

**dieselgeek** · July 16, 2009, 07:02 AM

Re: O2 Sensor Questions

Originally posted by SpiderGearsMan

for closed loop efi or just as a tuning tool ?

you read the pyrometer - cool is rich - hot is lean

Page not found – JS Performance

http://www.jsperformance.ca/product_info.php?products_id=318&osCsid=893f520d8ae8b929b35d95fbcb60d088

eh, wrong. there's rich of peak, and there's lean of peak EGTs.

The O2 sensors that are used by wideband controllers like an LM2 or LC1, are identical in size to the sensors used in OEM applications (narrow band). You'll want a wideband beacuse you'll want the engine running richer than 14.7:1 at WOT but still be able to tell "how rich" (narrowband units simply go "full rich" anytime the mixture is richer than 14.7:1)

A wideband will come with a "controller" which is a piece of electronics you're going to have to mount somewhere inside the car (some can be mounted outside the cabin however). The wiring between the sensor and the controller will be supplied with the kit; but you'll have to wire up the power and grounds (and maybe an external gauge or display) to the controller. A word of advice: separate the controller from your "noisy" devices. I.e., give it a dedicated run to the battery through it's own relay (and fuse!).

**squirrel** · July 16, 2009, 07:08 AM

Re: O2 Sensor Questions

Are all O2 sensors 18mm?

**dieselgeek** · July 16, 2009, 07:15 AM

Re: O2 Sensor Questions

Originally posted by squirrel

Are all O2 sensors 18mm?

I'm sure there are some that come in different sizes but since pretty much all of the ones Steve is going to be shopping are based on either the Bosch or NTK sensor itself, they're all going to be the same as OEM.

**DanStokes** · July 16, 2009, 07:16 AM

Re: O2 Sensor Questions

Scott's the man on this stuff. We used lots of wide-band sensors (Bosch and NTK, mostly) on our engine dyno instrumentation and they were physically pretty much interchangeable - except...... There was a change at some point that looks like this - the early units had the nut solidly mounted to the body of the sensor but the later units had a nut that spun freely on the body. I'm remembering that they required different bungs but I'm a bit fuzzy on this (it's been 5 years or so). You might want to explore this a bit further - maybe call NTK or Bosch and ask which you should plan for.

Interesting side note - when I retired, the sensor manufacturers were working on similar sensors to read NoX and HC directly in the exhaust. If they get these working they'll be able to read this stuff and adjust the above on the fly, leading to lower emissions, improved fuel economy, and, in the hands of - say - Dieselgeek - max performance. Thank Whomever for the planet Zirconia (Scott will explain).

Dan

**BOWTIE6872** · July 16, 2009, 09:10 AM

Re: O2 Sensor Questions

I think steve needs the hight of the sensor. from the blung to the wire out of sensor..
so there is enough room to install it .and it not be to close to a heat source/etc
don't most of the hand held tuning units use a heated o2 sensor..

and even tho. there is no converters in "play here..
does the placement of the sensor (how far down the pipe) matter..
and will an h or x pipe.. affect the reading from one bank to te other.. from any reversion in the pipes (left to right or right to left/etc

**dieselgeek** · July 16, 2009, 09:45 AM

Re: O2 Sensor Questions

Sensor dimensions should be easy enough to find with Google. but the bigger concern isn't mounting it based on dimensions - you want to mount an O2 sensor so it does NOT pick up moisture from condensation which happens in the pipes after shutdown. That means, mounting it horizontally into the side of the pipe - top or bottom vertical mounting will cause the sensor to get wet and premature failure.

You also want to mount it as "upstream" as possible. Big diameter exhaust and lots of cam overlap mean that you'll have a hard time getting a good reading at idle, until you put it under load - reversion causes some misfire, which puts unburned oxygen in the exhaust - and big diameter exhaust pipes allow oxygen from the atmosphere to work it's way up the tailpipe to the sensor.

There are temperature concerns too. The Bosch sensor likes a max of 900 degrees F EGTs where it's located. The NTK sensor can go a lot higher (but is more expensive). Either way, read CAREFULLY the owners manual before you install, all this stuff is usually made pretty clear. I'd buy the sensor and controller FIRST before I made final plans for the sensor's installation location,

-Scott

**SpiderGearsMan** · July 16, 2009, 10:05 AM

Re: O2 Sensor Questions

Originally posted by dieselgeek

Originally posted by SpiderGearsMan

for closed loop efi or just as a tuning tool ?

you read the pyrometer - cool is rich - hot is lean

Page not found – JS Performance

http://www.jsperformance.ca/product_info.php?products_id=318&osCsid=893f520d8ae8b929b35d95fbcb60d088

eh, wrong. there's rich of peak, and there's lean of peak EGTs.

The O2 sensors that are used by wideband controllers like an LM2 or LC1, are identical in size to the sensors used in OEM applications (narrow band). You'll want a wideband beacuse you'll want the engine running richer than 14.7:1 at WOT but still be able to tell "how rich" (narrowband units simply go "full rich" anytime the mixture is richer than 14.7:1)

A wideband will come with a "controller" which is a piece of electronics you're going to have to mount somewhere inside the car (some can be mounted outside the cabin however). The wiring between the sensor and the controller will be supplied with the kit; but you'll have to wire up the power and grounds (and maybe an external gauge or display) to the controller. A word of advice: separate the controller from your "noisy" devices. I.e., give it a dedicated run to the battery through it's own relay (and fuse!).

what is the pulse width opening rate in milliseconds of an 850 double pumper
haha - basic setup , so I got basic

**CTX-SLPR** · July 16, 2009, 11:34 AM

Re: O2 Sensor Questions

Originally posted by dieselgeek

Sensor dimensions should be easy enough to find with Google. but the bigger concern isn't mounting it based on dimensions - you want to mount an O2 sensor so it does NOT pick up moisture from condensation which happens in the pipes after shutdown. That means, mounting it horizontally into the side of the pipe - top or bottom vertical mounting will cause the sensor to get wet and premature failure.
-Scott

I have my stock O2 sensor (also the NGK WBO2 with NB sim eventually) located around 3.5ft from the turbo at around the 1:130-2:00 o'clock, am I good on the moisture and heat issues?

**BlackoutSteve** · July 16, 2009, 11:40 AM

Re: O2 Sensor Questions

They are simply being fitted as a tuning tool. The bungs I have have plugs in them too, as I don't intend on having sensors fitted all the time unless I do buy a lean/rich gauge of some sort perhaps.

Burn's O2 Sensor Ring. Flanged, 18mm, 304SS

Vince at Burns suggested fitting the bungs at the point closest to where all four primaries come together, which is physically possible, immediately after the collector on the megaphone in my application. I intended to mount the sensor horizontally, but thought maybe invertically (pointing down on top of the pipe) might have been OK, so thanks for the heads-up on that Scott. ;)

I was concerned about the length of the sensor as in this pic, you can see that I didn't want it to hit the tran's pan or rail on the otherside.

**SpiderGearsMan** · July 16, 2009, 01:18 PM

Re: O2 Sensor Questions

as close to the engine as possible

**BlackoutSteve** · July 17, 2009, 03:47 AM

Re: O2 Sensor Questions

My V6 Holden Statesman has two O2 sensors.. So, I assume it's logical to install provisions for two sensors on a V8 as well, right? -Which is what I am doing anyway.
So.. Looking up one of those wideband air/fuel ratio gauges from AutoMeter (at US$370!! :o), I'm assuming it comes with, and connects to just one O2 sensor.
Can one of these AutoMeter gauges connect to two O2 sensors (like I assume my Holden's computer does), or am I expected to buy two gauges, one for each sensor? Of course, I wouldn't do that, but is it expected to just tune from 4 of 8 cylinders?

http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugede...id=3750&sid=68

Pardon Our Interruption

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATM-3878/

http://www.autometer.com/tech_faq_an...x?sid=1&qid=48

**Eric68** · July 17, 2009, 04:18 AM

Re: O2 Sensor Questions

You really only need to run one sensor Steve. It is nice to have bungs in both sides though. Just put a plug in the one not in use.

What I do is put a bung in each side so I can switch sides and make sure both banks of the engine are running the same. After I know both sides are running the same I tune from one side and leave the sensor there. Shoot, you could tune from just one cylinder if you knew that they all were the same.

**DanStokes** · July 17, 2009, 07:28 AM

Re: O2 Sensor Questions

On OEM applications they use different sensors and different locations for different control strategies. I've seen before and after cat, each bank, etc, etc. I agree - on the Camaro I'd go with a bung in each back then check for consistency between banks. As long as you don't have intake leaks (or header leaks, the bane of my existence on the 250), etc I'd expect pretty consistent readings.

Dan

O2 Sensor Questions

O2 Sensor Questions

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