Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

[Caveman]

How would you do it?

Needs to be SIMPLE.... Because I am a simpleton.

I can connect A to B, and barely know which end of the wrench to use, but wiring diagrams make me break out in hives.



Its a Chrysler industrial flathead straight-six, currently has a points ignition. Its either 217ci., or 230 ci, depending on what literature your reading. Same basic engine thats in late 40's/early 50's Dodge trucks, Plymouth and Chrysler cars etc.

Carb is practically akin to spraying fuel into the intake with a Windex bottle. Actually, that would probably be better.

Limited space, under the hood, as the gas tank is over the engine, and it gravity feeds down to the fuel pump on the block.

What parts would you hunt for in a junkyard?

[Matt Cramer]

Re: Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

It's going to need an electric fuel pump. I'd probably try putting a TBI off a GM V6 on it, but you're going to need to be hitting the wiring diagrams regardless...

[Caveman]

Re: Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

I was absolutely thinking of a small-motor TBI, but I wanted to hear all opinions anyway...

Early 90's GM? Is the GM ECU easier to re-program/remap? Wikipedia says 2.8 v6 Chevy Luminas had TBI, but should I look for a truck setup?

How much fuel pressure would I need?

[Matt Cramer]

Re: Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

I don't touch stock ECU reprogramming myself, and I haven't seen any that are genuinely easy to reprogram for an engine not related to the original. GM TBI V6 ECUs are the only factory six cylinder ECUs I have ever seen where someone's been able to tweak them enough to run on a different engine, although it may be possible with some Ford ones. Never seen it done with a Ford, though. Personally, I'd pair it with a MegaSquirt-II (of course, I'd say that...), but I'll let people with experience hacking factory ECUs speak up about what's involved there. I'm not sure if there are significant differences between the computers on FWD and RWD TBI applications.

You'll need somewhere around 15 psi of fuel pressure with a GM TBI. The regulator is inside the TBI unit, so at least the plumbing part is pretty easy.

[Caveman]

Re: Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

What year/model GM TBI had the integral fuel pressure regulator?

What are the other MANDATORY pieces that you suggest I snag off a donor car/truck?
i.e., o2 sensor, etc...

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

My two cents is this:

Find a Chevy 305-350 TBI, they all have internal pressure regulators, be sure to grab the fuel fittings and a bit of fuel line attached to them too. Grab the Coolant Temp Sensor and the Intake Temp Sensor (doesn't have to be off the same vehicle, but shoot for a GM) That's it. It should have the TPS on it.

For my '67 T-bird I have a GM TBI, GM temp sensors, a $30-$40 TBI electric pump and an MS1. The relay board and other stuff I have are just niceties really. The key would be to get a relay to power the fuel pump from the MS fuel pump control (I use that loosely, it's just on or off).

You'll want to make sure you run the appropriate fuse(s) for the MS and the Fuel Pump, make sure you have power to the megasquirt during cranking and run a fuel return line to the gas tank. Pending shape of gas tank and use of the vehicle (is this a slow piece of equipment?) , you may need a surge tank or baffles in the gas tank so it doesn't starve for fuel around corners when low on gas.

Depending how precise you want the tune an O2 sensor. If cheap the Narrow band right off the donor vehicle (or $20 new) or more pricey the wideband (and controller).

[Caveman]

Re: Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

.... a relay to power the fuel pump from the MS fuel pump control (I use that loosely, it's just on or off)...
This thing is DIRT Simple... Could I just power the the pump and board with a switch?

... (is this a slow piece of equipment?) , you may need a surge...
How big of a surge tank would be adequate? This thing has issues with a 6 gal tank on hills... it is sloooooow though...

Here's a shot of the fuel tank over the engine, lines have a shutoff valve, and run down to the pump. I may run lines to remotely route the pump... it's kinda tight in there.


here's a shot of the stone-age OEM fuel delivery system.


The space for a throttle body is fairly tight as I guess it would fit right where the old carb is... but thats about 1/2" from where the side curtain is...

[Caveman]

Re: Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

crap.... shoulda resized those pics... oops

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

As tight as that looks, and I forgot how the intake was set up. I change my recommendation from a GM 305-350 TBI to some other single barrel TBI, larger probably better (Matt, D/G, ideas?). Still get the GM sensors even if the TBI comes off a Chrysler or Ford (or ??).

This thing is DIRT Simple... Could I just power the the pump and board with a switch?

You could use a single toggle switch for the MS, but I'd still recommend letting the MS control the fuel pump via a relay (simple relay wiring works).

How big of a surge tank would be adequate? This thing has issues with a 6 gal tank on hills... it is sloooooow though...

Have you seen my Skylarks pipe b... Surge Tank!? It's a 2" x 4" iron pipe with some ports on it.





I shortened up the pipe to a 4" one to fit in the car.


It's sitting where the carbon canister was.

[Caveman]

Re: Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

Yeah, I remember that tank from your project car thread... dropped outta my memory bank. It's a simple solution, and easy.

What are each of the ports on the top and the bottom actually for? I.e., feed, return?

How did you seal the threads?

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

I used a tapered pipe thread tap on the holes and used sealer on the threads.

The three ports on the top are: Gas Tank Inlet, Return Inlet from the regulator, Outlet back to the gas tank.

The single port on the bottom is: The feed to the high pressure pump (relative, to the TBI pump).

Thinking about it, you could probably get away with gravity feeding the surge tank and maybe maaaybe get away with out an Outlet back to the gas tank if you are using gravity, you'd just have to make sure the surge tank fills up the first time you put fuel in it. And barring a funny loop or something in the plumbing it'd probably work fine.

Also at the rate that thing consumes fuel, you'd probably do fine with an even smaller pipe than I used.

[Caveman]

Re: Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

Yeah... used to have a 1" copper pipe with washers soldered on either end of it as a 'surge tank'. It definitely helped it from crapping out on hills when the tank was 1/3 full or less... but now the fuel filter seems to be helping instead. Never had one until last month, when we threw it on during the tuneup.

Without the shutoff valves, the fuel used to drain down through the pump seals into the crankcase.... couldn't figure out why we were gaining oil on the dipstick!

[dieselgeek]

Re: Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

Tony, do you have a laptop?


My vote is for a small Holley TBI off a plymouth K-car. There should be a ton of them in your junkyard. The fuel pressure regulator is built into them, and only needs 15psi. $35 inline TBI pump will do fine.

My vote is get a megasquirt kit, and a relay board kit from DIY. The wiring is very simple this way. I did a flathead six in a Dodge pickup the same way, it runs like a champ (and idles happily at 450rpm).

You could get fancy and control the ignition, I bet there's a Pertronix module available that fits in your distributor. Or you could just leave the ignition alone for now.

It's a great, simple way to learn EFI.

[Caveman]

Re: Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

Tony, do you have a laptop?

My vote is for a small Holley TBI off a plymouth K-car. There should be a ton of them in your junkyard. The fuel pressure regulator is built into them, and only needs 15psi. $35 inline TBI pump will do fine.

My vote is get a megasquirt kit, and a relay board kit from DIY. The wiring is very simple this way. I did a flathead six in a Dodge pickup the same way, it runs like a champ (and idles happily at 450rpm).

You could get fancy and control the ignition, I bet there's a Pertronix module available that fits in your distributor. Or you could just leave the ignition alone for now.

It's a great, simple way to learn EFI.

'Geek !! Sweeeet idea.... Hope I can find a K-car that hasn't been scrapped yet.

On the laptop now... I've looked at the Pertronix website, didn't see a module for a I-6 flathead.

On that Dodge, what did you use for all the other sensors? I.e., coolant temp, O2, airflow, etc... all K-car stuff?

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Inject a '47 Clark tractor?

On that Dodge, what did you use for all the other sensors? I.e., coolant temp, O2, airflow, etc... all K-car stuff?

GM stuff is the simplest.