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Turbo Intercoolers Air/Air or Water/Air?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by TheSilverBuick View Post
    ...
    And you don't run the intercooler core in the A/C ducting, you install a system similar to a rear A/C unit on a Suburban where there is a second evaporator in the intercooler's reservoir.
    note to self.. Randal will freeze you in the winter and fry you in the summer!

    I didn't look up the Nova's system, but that makes sense. Still too much work for me. Several feet of 2.5 - 3" tube running around under the hood is enough for me.
    Flying south, with a flock of bird dogs.

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    • #17
      The A/C system, after an hour of driving might be good for two 1/4 mile passes before the water is warmed up.

      Likewise from what I've seen of folks pouring ice into their water tanks. Most of it is melted by the end of the pass, but they did get sub-ambient temps. However, after that 8-10 seconds of running, they are quickly approaching ambient and for any kind of street driving, going to pass, etc, it will only be cooling to ambient temps.... just like an air to air. For a 100+ pounds weight penalty over air to air, the water to air doesn't make sense for my primarily street use.
      Escaped on a technicality.

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      • #18
        Nearly every new tractor we sell is a turbo charged diesel, and EVERY turbo'd tractor we sell has an intercooler on it. The AG OEMs will do anything to boost power in the cheapest way possible (low-margin high-dollar market) especially in the face of ever more stringent epa mandates.

        Intercooling air-to-air is a simple, relatively cheap way to bring the intake air temperatures back down after compression increases it. I don't see it so much as trying to get below ambient, as trying to get BACK to ambient (or relatively close to it)


        Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

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        • #19
          Have you considered a water/methanol system similar to a Snow's Performance injection system?

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          • #20
            I will add a water/meth kit only if my HP goals are not achieved and I need it to get a few more pounds of boost.
            Escaped on a technicality.

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            • #21
              have you seen or read of any other firebirds your body style with intercoolers ? where are they mounted ? how much area is there between the core support and grill opening for a air to air inter cooler ? IMO water to air just means more shit that can go wrong
              Charles W - BS Photographer at large

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              • #22
                Originally posted by BOOOGHAR View Post
                have you seen or read of any other firebirds your body style with intercoolers ? where are they mounted ? how much area is there between the core support and grill opening for a air to air inter cooler ? IMO water to air just means more shit that can go wrong
                Agreed.

                What brought this about is I asked for pictures on the Pontiac forum of folks who have ran intercoolers on '69 Firebirds. I so far have gotten one good picture post, the rest have primarily been about installing an air/water cooler and adding A/C to my car for said cooler.... So I thought I'd ask here, and a few people here who's opinions I highly value have responded air/air is the way to go for my application, so I'll stick to plan A.

                After seeing the pictures, I think I'll narrow up my radiator a bit as seen in the picture (since I intend to purchase a new radiator with remote pump anyways) and try and find an intercooler a bit wider than the radiator and run the inlet and outlet around the radiator. The next step is to take some measurements of the front end area then look up common intercooler and radiator widths then see about finding a combination that fits best.

                Here are a couple of the pictures posted up. I'm okay taking a hole saw to the core support.







                Escaped on a technicality.

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                • #23
                  I think I'd perforate the core support (but I have an assortment of hole saws). Again, Silicone Intake Systems will have you covered for tubing, boots, clamps, and the like. So far, I really like those guys.

                  Dan

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by BigAL View Post
                    Just remember nothing removes heat better than water. My concern living in the southwest is how efficient is an air/air when the temps outside are 115 degrees. Also water to air coolers have a smaller footprint which might make mounting it easier if you don't have a lot of room up front. Then your mounting the cooler in front of the radiator which is restricting the air that pass though the radiator not ot mention heating it up. My design for the Monte is to run two smaller water/air intercoolers, one for each turbo and then have a reservoir with water that has it's own external radiator to cool the water. You can mount the reservoir radiator under the car with a couple small electric fans on it.
                    Just remember experience trumps guessing.

                    Without a doubt, air to air for your application Randal.
                    www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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                    • #25
                      will this app need a electric fan between the rad and engine to help pull air thru ?
                      Charles W - BS Photographer at large

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                      • #26
                        I hauled scrap out of a truck shop (International) there was one that was an intercooler on the bottom and a radiator up top.. It was pretty darn huge by large.. It seems it was from either a Volvo or an Izuzu.. Or something different..

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                        • #27
                          Personally I would go ALKY Control kit. Intercoolers add more complexity to the system, boost leaks, and weight. As compact as an alcohol kit on 100% akly (water is stupid) and considering it wont be used that often is keeping it more simple and more efficient. The mistake people make with alky injection is they use it as a crutch to fix a fuel problem. If all your systems are good and your tuneup is right you only need a small amount of alcohol to cool the charge and it gives you detonation protection in high heat. and stay away from SNO, that shit is crap. http://www.alkycontrol.com/ Julio easily has the best kit on the market by a land slide with tons of applications to fit your needs. If you must go air to air you need to pay a lot of attention to how the air moves through it. Mounting location is extremely important.

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                          • #28
                            Actually there is a very good reason for the water. Has to do with latent heat of evaporation. With two different fluids (water and alcohol) you have two different phases of evaporation. Go back and read the NACA papers.

                            I second your thoughts on alkycontrol being a vendor worth working with.

                            Randal, I agree that an air/air is probably the way to go. Just make certain that you optimize your ducting to the heat-exchangers. Doing it properly is a bit counter-intuitive. Again, go read the NACA papers.
                            I'm still learning

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Bob Holmes View Post
                              Actually there is a very good reason for the water. Has to do with latent heat of evaporation.
                              That's why I said nothing cools better than water. Even at ambient temps the water needs a smaller footprint to do the same job.
                              The Green Machine.
                              http://s1.postimg.org/40t9i583j/mytruck.jpg

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                              • #30
                                I was referring to water/alky injection.
                                I'm still learning

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