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  • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

    If you decide to lower your UCA with the Arning trick, I have a steel template you can borrow. I'm just getting ready to do my Mustang.
    Tom
    Overdrive is overrated


    Comment


    • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

      I do plan on lowering the upper a arm attachment points - let me know how far yours move. There are several templates out there, I think the global west folks offer several choices depending on street / race.


      A friend helped me lower the falcon onto the wooden dolly I'd built a while back to roll the ranger bed around, it turned out to be about the perfect size to support the entire center of the body - but the casters weren't quite up to the task - well one of them wasn't - so I'll have to swap that out and perhaps add another pair of casters in the middle to help distribute the load. It was nice to be able to roll the shell around to make room for another vehicle to get in for some regular maintenance.

      With the falcon axle out of the car I did some careful measuring and comparing to the ranger 8.8..... The ranger is only ~1" wider than the falcon axle in stock form, so once the ranger axle is narrowed to center it, it will be narrower than the factory axle. That, combined with moving the leaf springs inboard and the minitub - and I should be in ~9" tire category for the rear, without butchering the wheel wells.


      I'm glad the heating season is just about over - the waste oil furnace blower motor quit completely - and it's a damned good thing I was there (I only occasionally run the furnace when I'm not there) - the over temp shut off apparently needs to be adjusted because the burner kept running even after the blower motor failed, it could have burned the whole place to the ground with the 54, 62, 69 and all my tools with it. I need to do some trouble shooting and perhaps replace the blower fan temperature control along with the fan motor itself.
      Last edited by milner351; April 3rd, 2012, 04:51 AM.
      There's always something new to learn.

      Comment


      • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

        Wow, that's pretty scary. Glad the place didn't burn down. I know a guy who lost all his tools when the hangar burned down at Willow Run. If there hadn't been some guys there to push it outside they would have lost the B-17 too.

        Comment


        • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

          First off I'm not a suspension expert or road racer, I just want a nice handling street car. Instead of monkey see monkey do, I wanted to some what understand exactly what is going on in suspensions. I've bought a great book, read a lot on line and asked a lot of questions. So what I say is my take, my understanding for better or worse. I've had a lot of time to think and re-think what I want to do.

          The Falcon was designed to be a compact car that didn't ride like one, more like a bigger car. It got longer rear leafs and the front geometry is designed to make or give road impact forces oposite of the bump, so the wheel basically travels camber wise, basically straight up and down and not a lot of camber change. As you know, once in a turn, the outside wheel is going to see positive camber instead of needed negative cambler as the body rolls in relation to the ground. Lowering the UCA raises the roll angle up from the road surface and starts to put the camber in the right direction. 1" is as far as you can go with stock arms before you put the BJ into a bind and break it. Over the years guys have played with the amount of drop from 1", 1.375", 1.5", 1.75" and 2". The 1.75" from what I gather is the point where you get a true negative camber curve with the stock UCA, going to 2" does make it more pronounced along with raising the roller center even higher. On the GW they recomment 1.375" as the idea amount for the roll center, I'm not sure if that's with their arm or just in general but I think in general and not just their arm. While they won't disclose just how much shorter their arm is VS a stock, the general consensus is about .25" as they provide a spacer. Finishing up lowering the UCA is doing 2 important things, improving the camber curve and raising the roll center which is just as important. The problem with the 2" drop is it raises the roll center too high. It'll make the car very stable and reduce roll but once it goes over it's limit, it looses it quickly and suddely, not predictable.

          The 1.75" kit provides an aluminum wedge to correct the ball joint angle but it's not cheap. Other guys have wedge cut the arm by the BJ, flattened it out and rewelded or have put them in a hydraulic press to flatten the out. So that's some of your options. Now once you have changed the location of your UCA, you have opened up another can of worms, bump steer. Since the camber curve is different, so is toe change. Add into that equation different spindle is something else to think about. IIRC, you're going to use Granada disc. From 67 & up the height off the road surface for the tie rod connection at the spindle has been raised about 1" which makes bump steer even worse to the point of being undrivable with GW UCA! They specifically tell you do not use Granada spindles. I'm not sure if the geometry of the tie rod arms is the same as the Mustang arms but a lot of guys say yes. I had a pair of Granada spindles and I thought they angled in more then the Mustang besides being raised. But that's what they make bump steer kits for, right? Most of the guys tend to use all the spacer in the kits to get bump steer acceptable.

          Caster is up next. Falcons and Mustangs lack this in a big way. I was told by a freind of mine years ago who road raced his 66 Mustang who knew his suspension stuff told me radial tires are like the cartoon tires you see that are egg shaped. He said radials compared to bias tire are distorted and move the contact patch back compared to a bias tire. A lot of guys say it's hard to get enough shims in for get + caster. One trick is to play games with the UCA shaft and their threaded end caps to move the arm back on the shaft. Also a lot of guys run adjustable struts. You can either cut & thread the shaft, by a threaded swedged adjusting tube and install a rod end. Some guys drill the strut bracket and run a bolt through the brackets sides as Cobra Racing kits do or buy a set already made from various vendors. If you keep the stock struts, DO NOT USE poly bushings! They will snap the strut.

          Something else to touch on are the spring pearches. The early Falcons used a bronze bushing while later Mustangs and Falcons used ones with rubber bushings. The rubber bushings are quiet but add artificial spring rate and inconsistant action. A popular set up with the Mustang guys is to use a modified set with roller bearings, I bought a set. The early Falcons were the prefered ones untill the roller ones hit the market because they don't squeek or wear.

          So where am I with my car? I'm sticking with the 1" for many reasons. Mostly money...I don't have any extra right now. Besides it's a street car, my UCA are in like new and they are genuine Ford parts. Also 65-66 Mustangs don't have big front fenters which limits tire choice especially with rims up to 16". With a 17" rim, the rim will clear the UCA BJ and you can run a much wider tire. I already have new TTD 15 x 7" rims made in USA and not China that I want to use and don't have the money for a new set of rims. I'll be using regular street tires as well. I'm not driving like an idiot on the street either. These are the UCA I will buy when I hit the lottery.

          http://www.streetortrack.com/Street-...-pr-24440.html


          From everything I can understand talking to a lot of guys who actually road race, the standard 1" drop, 1" anti sway bar, good shocks such as Koni, decent tires and a moderate spring rate makes a huge difference. One guy I was talking to with this set up said he was racing with an Audi club, they couldn't believe how well his car handled and kept up with them with his basically stock suspension! DO NOT run a rear anti roll bar! Leaf springs do provide some amont of anti roll. They also act like a long torsion rod when the angle of the axle is different from the body. Ever try to twist a leaf spring? All the Mustang road racers will tell you the car will swap ends in a turn with one.

          One last thing with your 8.8, is the offset of the differential. Some guys have had some slight rubbing on the trans tunnel.
          Last edited by Huskinhano; April 3rd, 2012, 09:35 AM.
          Tom
          Overdrive is overrated


          Comment


          • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

            Huskin - thank you - I'm a steering / suspension newbie, and I appreciate your feedback. I've changed alot of stock parts, but have never gotten into changing any geometry.

            Like you, I'm on a budget and hope to use as much of what I have as possible, and minimize the catalogue shopping, hence the fact that I'm avoiding the mustang II rack and pinion loose the shock tower approach, and I'm not back halfing or 4 link / coil over the rear either.

            I have Granada spindles, and brakes (manual) but I also hear the 71-73 mustang spindles maybe better.

            I have the complete 65 mustang steering linkage and control arms upper and lower.

            I think I will have to replace the mustang centerlink with a falcon due to the difference in frame widths - the falcon center link is shorter.


            I thought the UCA mount lowering trick also induced castor by lowering the rear bolt hole ~1/8" more than the front?

            The ranger axle will be shortened to use two short side axles - this will center the diff again and make the axle slightly narrower than the stock axle.

            I'm also moving the leaf springs inboard - which will allow for more rear tire width - along with a minitub job. I realize narrowing the leafs conceptually looses some lateral stability - but that will be offset with the wider tires.

            I don't plan on road racing this car - and if I do - I can always change parts later.

            Primary goal is to get the car on the road and fully functional for drag week in September - there will undoubtedly be revisions in the future.
            There's always something new to learn.

            Comment


            • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

              Great to see all the work getting done!
              1997 Ranger 5.0L HO, GT40 heads/tubular intake, 65mm TB, 1.7rr, B303, Tri-Y headers, dual 2.5" exhaust, Flowmaster mufflers, T5 trans, Tri-Ax shifter, CenterForce Dual Friction clutch, 8.8 Traction Lok 3.55 gears, Cobra 13" front brakes, Cobra 11.65" rear discs.
              1997 Mustang GT
              sigpic


              Comment


              • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

                Praise to the Beecam! LOL

                another friend may finally get off his behind and finish the 306 we started years ago - another Beecam engine!

                I'm already feeling the pressure to get the car done, my wife has used lots of her holiday inn points to book the hotels for drag week which are non refundable..... TICK TOCK
                There's always something new to learn.

                Comment


                • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

                  I haven't booked a thing, worse case I buy them off you. At an EXTREMELY discounted rate of course for my troubles
                  Escaped on a technicality.

                  Comment


                  • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

                    you will get it done John!
                    Neal

                    Drag Week 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013

                    Comment


                    • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

                      I don't have anything useful to add.......... but I'm sure enjoying this thread!

                      Keep chipping away! That Falcon looks pretty durned good from underneath, at least from here.
                      [ATTACH=CONFIG]n29882[/ATTACH]

                      Comment


                      • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

                        It's really perty derned clean as old cars go. tffn.net has shown me what some guys have gone through to "de rust" one of these, and I sure have it easy from that stand point.

                        The front end stuff is dizzying, I just hope I can put a decent driver together and when I do get it on the road it doesn't steer like a death trap.

                        I will be at the Columbus all Ford swap meet this weekend, we'll see if I can scare up anything good for this build - the hood and drivers fender have enough wrong with them I'll get replacements If I can find a fair deal on any in better shape than what I have. It's a win for me either way since I have a buyer lined up meeting me there for the original engine, axle, radiator, and 4 lug wheels.
                        There's always something new to learn.

                        Comment


                        • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

                          I thought there might have been a difference between the Mustang and Granada spindle I'm not sure but a lot of people say they are exactly the same from a geometry point and the same as all Mustang spindles whether drum or disc from 67 to 73. The single piston Mustang set up has a slightly larger rotor and I think a slightly bigger caliper piston The Mustang disc is 11.25" while the Granada is something like 10.875" or 10.925". The 70 & up drum spindle is highly sought after because from 1970 and up, the axle stub is larger and beefier. The drum spindle is preferred since it's easier to adapt big brakes to. A hot set up with the disc version is to adapt the twin piston late model Mustang PBR calipers. You bolt it directly to the lower spindle caliper mount, I think a very slight shim is needed to center it to the rotor and then you use a block of aluminum to adapt to the top since the bolt holes plane is 90* apart.

                          On lowering the UCA, the new bottom horizontal center line is exactly parallel to the top. Then the new verticle ones are exactly 90* to the horizontal lines. Where the verticle line intersect with the new bottom line, the new hole center lines are going to be back 1/8" inch to add caster. From 67 to 70, you do not move them back because the lip on the shock tower reinforcement plate is in the way. If you marked the amount of shims you removed on each side, subtract about 1/4" of shims equally on both UCA bolt to get you close to where it was. New specs should be 1/8" toe, 0 camber and 2.5+ caster. The over all effect of relocating the UCA down 1" will lower the front by about 5/8" at least on Mustangs. You've increased the distance between the UCA mounting points and the upper psring seat, so now the spring has a bigger opening to fill since the UCA is at a new angle.

                          Oh yeah, get this Fn book! Ignore the reviews, I think they were by people who want some one to hold their hand and not think. I have it and it's got tons of usefull information

                          http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Car-Setu...3482809&sr=8-1
                          Last edited by Huskinhano; April 3rd, 2012, 12:58 PM.
                          Tom
                          Overdrive is overrated


                          Comment


                          • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

                            Here is a very good article on falcon steering, this is what I did to mine, and I have NO complaints about how it rides or handles. - http://www.cometeastcarclub.org/PDFs...ingUpgrade.pdf here a link to falconparts also http://www.cometeastcarclub.org/PDFs...ingUpgrade.pdf I used an actual 1965 comet setup, but good luck getting ahold of one of them

                            Comment


                            • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

                              Here is a very good article on falcon steering, this is what I did to mine, and I have NO complaints about how it rides or handles. - http://www.cometeastcarclub.org/PDFs...ingUpgrade.pdf here a link to falconparts also http://www.cometeastcarclub.org/PDFs...ingUpgrade.pdf I used an actual 1965 comet setup, but good luck getting ahold of one of them
                              That is some great info! I didn't realize there was a difference.
                              Tom
                              Overdrive is overrated


                              Comment


                              • Re: 62 Falcon - $5k challenge, how will it rise from the ranger's ashes?

                                I thought there might have been a difference between the Mustang and Granada spindle I'm not sure but a lot of people say they are exactly the same from a geometry point and the same as all Mustang spindles whether drum or disc from 67 to 73. The single piston Mustang set up has a slightly larger rotor and I think a slightly bigger caliper piston The Mustang disc is 11.25" while the Granada is something like 10.875" or 10.925". The 70 & up drum spindle is highly sought after because from 1970 and up, the axle stub is larger and beefier. The drum spindle is preferred since it's easier to adapt big brakes to. A hot set up with the disc version is to adapt the twin piston late model Mustang PBR calipers. You bolt it directly to the lower spindle caliper mount, I think a very slight shim is needed to center it to the rotor and then you use a block of aluminum to adapt to the top since the bolt holes plane is 90* apart.

                                On lowering the UCA, the new bottom horizontal center line is exactly parallel to the top. Then the new verticle ones are exactly 90* to the horizontal lines. Where the verticle line intersect with the new bottom line, the new hole center lines are going to be back 1/8" inch to add caster. From 67 to 70, you do not move them back because the lip on the shock tower reinforcement plate is in the way. If you marked the amount of shims you removed on each side, subtract about 1/4" of shims equally on both UCA bolt to get you close to where it was. New specs should be 1/8" toe, 0 camber and 2.5+ caster. The over all effect of relocating the UCA down 1" will lower the front by about 5/8" at least on Mustangs. You've increased the distance between the UCA mounting points and the upper psring seat, so now the spring has a bigger opening to fill since the UCA is at a new angle.

                                Oh yeah, get this Fn book! Ignore the reviews, I think they were by people who want some one to hold their hand and not think. I have it and it's got tons of usefull information

                                http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Car-Setu...3482809&sr=8-1
                                while not a ford guy, I'm fairly certain you have that backwards. I had Mustang now have Grenada rotors on the Spider - the Grenada rotors are 11, the Mustang 9.5". I use the Mustang Spindle, but, there might be a difference that is allowed for by the bearings (I bought the grenada rotors as "conversion" parts from CCP).
                                It only takes one aweshit to erase a dozen attaboys

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