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mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

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  • Another note, I have the same front sway bar. With the change in geometry it corners substantially flatter. To read the theory is one thing, but to experience it is another.

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    • Originally posted by mike343sharpstick View Post
      Another note, I have the same front sway bar. With the change in geometry it corners substantially flatter. To read the theory is one thing, but to experience it is another.
      I noticed that on my Mustang as well. it felt like the sway bar was working with the car. Before lowering the upper arms it felt like it was fighting to keep the car flat. Yep, raising the roll center does wonders! Dick Guldstand did this also in the gen 1 Camaros. He did the same thing Shelby did. lower the upper arms and move them back which allowed him to drive away from other Camaros in the early days of Trans Am racing.
      Tom
      Overdrive is overrated


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      • Oh great, now the front end works so good the back of the car is always loose.
        I don't even have the bigger tires on the front yet.
        I have the adjustable panhard bar, perhaps I need to mess with that now.

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        • Change one thing it effects another, I really don't understand how a panhard bar works, I look foward to your results.

          Highjack: my frist car was an 85 v6 tbird. It pushed. At some point I got my hands on a rear sway bar off an 84 v8 tbird. It seemed to not push as much and corner better. Does that match theory or was it all in my head?
          http://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum...-consolidation
          1.54, 7.31 @ 94.14, 11.43 @ 118.95

          PB 60' 1.49
          ​​​​​​

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          • As far as my new over-steer issue, It's simply because I'm hitting corners much faster now, and, um... rolling into the throttle a bit too aggressively.
            My panhard bar is adjustable up and down, which changes rear roll center. I messed with it before, but it didn't make much difference, I think adjustments out back may now be effective.

            A rear roll bar will effect corner turn in along with body roll. So it wasn't your imagination.
            I'll try to explain.
            When you turn the steering wheel of a car, the mass of the car wants to continue to move in the direction it's already going. That Newton fella had some theories on this.
            With a soft suspension, the split second you turn the wheel the car does not immediately follow the new angle of the front wheels, Rather it leans in the opposite direction in order to try to continue the same it was before. Once it settles on the springs it will begin actually changing direction. When you follow a car, and you see the driver make a sharp right turn, notice that the right rear of the car immediately lifts.
            Now add a rear sway bar.
            The rear of that car will not lift, and as a result will more quickly respond to the change in direction.
            Last edited by mike343sharpstick; June 16, 2017, 10:52 AM.

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            • I've done a little reading on them. The book I have, the author says the panhard should be split in it's travel at ride height and not parallel to the ground. Part of the reason is as you turn as you have noted there is a side thrust just like a pole vault which either tries to move the axle away or towards the body depending on which way your turning. The forces can be substantial and you can really unload a tire. We alway just look at the chassis in a static condition when we try to analyses how everything works and totally over look engine torque. They can actually work similar to a torque tube and control body roll under acceleration. The book I have is by Bob Bolles.
              Tom
              Overdrive is overrated


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              • A Panhard bar works and works well when properly set up (I have one on the 'Stang that was a HUGE improvement) but Watt's link is even better though much harder to fabricate. Rather that try to describe each I'll suggest you Google them. Basically, the Panhard allows the axle to move in a limited arc while the Watt's link prevents sideways movement but only allows the axle to move straight up and down.

                Dan

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                • The Panhard -vs- Watts link debate will go on forever. All the Penske cars ran a panhard bar, and they won a few championships In my case the panhrad bar is adjustable, so now that the car isn't under steering as much I can adjust the panhard up and down so see what happens.

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                  • Only, Dan? On a car, a panhard bar isn't as big of deal as it is on a long-travel, 4x4 suspension. I wish I could use a Watts on my FJ40... though I can't imagine the debate between the two. The Watts allows for the same steering in either direction, panhard causes uneven rear-steer issues.

                    I think you need to design a IRS
                    Last edited by SuperBuickGuy; June 22, 2017, 09:35 AM.
                    Doing it all wrong since 1966

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                    • And so it begins once again.....
                      Patrick & Tammy
                      - Long Haulin' 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014...Addicting isn't it...??

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                      • I hate the words "why don't you just" when spoken to me - however, that does not prevent me from using those same words on someone else. Funny thing, I think AMC experimented with IRS in that particular body-style....
                        Doing it all wrong since 1966

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                        • Perhaps, but still ROF.....
                          Patrick & Tammy
                          - Long Haulin' 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014...Addicting isn't it...??

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                          • Great idea, If I do rear IRS I may as well throw in a Corvette C5 transaxle then!

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                            • I like how you think you didn't need a back shelf anyway
                              Doing it all wrong since 1966

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                              • In the very early days of Trans Am racing for AMC, they were actually using Ford Mustang suspension complete with AMC part numbers since the parts had to be "factory".
                                Tom
                                Overdrive is overrated


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