gas vs diesel

[Barry Donovan]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos...k?ocid=U142DHP

good read.

I am liking the torque finally gaining 4 times more than gas..while the gas is only 20 to 30hp different.
Could not wait for this stuff to unfold before our lies.

It is funny to see, even Gale Banks predicted a tiny boosted engine in the 70s...as a teacher for GM.

Given the facts of history, the little boxer is simply going to come back out of nowhere. Straight linear lines drawn for a complex problem: balance throughout the rotation.
my own without boost, gains torque numbers unwritten, just by going down a cold highway with modern controls to climb the engines demand to feed.

I also look forward to the bigger 4cyl diesels making a return. Perkins, 4bt etc.

in the drag racing world, the modern controls are being proven by world records...Larsons tale is incredible.

The last weird thing left, for real... the concepts of balance in engineering still accept crazy stuff, like a v6, to be their target.

linear to rotation is the last hard chunk of iron man thinking left to contend with, and put in the correct place.

[SuperBuickGuy]

The dumbest upgrade I ever did was pull the 6.2 diesel out of my 1st diesel truck and put in a gas rather than buying a gale banks turbo for the diesel that was in it... 1/2 the mpg, twice the cost, a torque loss, and minimal hp gain...

[Beagle]

I'd say "I'm not sure it's all that much cheaper." It's about 30% up on fuel mileage, but the fuel costs 20% more. The parts are outrageously high compared to a small block. The initial outlay for a diesel is insane. The 3-4 gallon oil changes and 8 gallon cooling systems are definitely not on their plus side. Other than my 444 weighing 300 pounds more than my 460, and still having electronics out the wazoo, I'm all for it. It does pull a trailer well. Sure it makes 450 foot pounds somewhere around idle but if you can't make 450 foot pounds with a 460, much less with a turbocharger, maybe the tools should stay in the box. If you're pulling a 20,000 pound trailer everywhere it goes, the diesel wins. Otherwise, it's kind of a wash from a monetary standpoint.

I'm still collecting parts for a v2203 Kubota conversion (2.2 liter) and looking for a sub 2800 pound hatchback to put it in. From an up-front cost standpoint, a gas engine is way cheaper. Everything for a diesel seems to weigh 25% more than what is required for a petrol setup and cost at least twice what you think it should. I'll only have to drive it 200,000 miles to break even.

All that said, why don't we have the Isuzu / Colorado with a baby D-max or one of the baby diesels that Australian Ford's get?

[SuperBuickGuy]

I paid less for my diesel than a comparable gas motor truck, diesel is only 5% higher price here, and I get 50% better mileage.... but other than that, you're spot on

[dieselgeek]

I paid less for my diesel than a comparable gas motor truck, diesel is only 5% higher price here, and I get 50% better mileage.... but other than that, you're spot on

I'm impressed with the GM 6.5 diesels, guys are building them on the cheap and they last a long time, making good power, and getting *crazy* good economy. For a non-max-duty rig (what 99% of diesel truck drivers need anyhow), I'm tempted to do what you did and put together a utility truck with one.

Got any favorite forums or blogs online that you use for info?

[BigAL]

I'd say "I'm not sure it's all that much cheaper." It's about 30% up on fuel mileage, but the fuel costs 20% more. The parts are outrageously high compared to a small block. The initial outlay for a diesel is insane. The 3-4 gallon oil changes and 8 gallon cooling systems are definitely not on their plus side. Other than my 444 weighing 300 pounds more than my 460, and still having electronics out the wazoo, I'm all for it. It does pull a trailer well. Sure it makes 450 foot pounds somewhere around idle but if you can't make 450 foot pounds with a 460, much less with a turbocharger, maybe the tools should stay in the box. If you're pulling a 20,000 pound trailer everywhere it goes, the diesel wins. Otherwise, it's kind of a wash from a monetary standpoint.

Wondering if you've ever owned a Diesel truck......

[BigAL]

I'm impressed with the GM 6.5 diesels, guys are building them on the cheap and they last a long time, making good power, and getting *crazy* good economy. For a non-max-duty rig (what 99% of diesel truck drivers need anyhow), I'm tempted to do what you did and put together a utility truck with one.

Got any favorite forums or blogs online that you use for info?

If building a 6.5 later years are better than the earlier ones, 6.5 were famous for cracked heads, broken cranks, and main bearing webbing failures. Duramax's have been out for over 10 years now, they have proven to go a Million Miles and you can find them for under $4,000 now a days.

[Beagle]

I'm impressed with the GM 6.5 diesels, guys are building them on the cheap and they last a long time, making good power, and getting *crazy* good economy. For a non-max-duty rig (what 99% of diesel truck drivers need anyhow), I'm tempted to do what you did and put together a utility truck with one.

Got any favorite forums or blogs online that you use for info?

dieselbombers.com has some decent info from time to time.

[Beagle]

Wondering if you've ever owned a Diesel truck......

I own one currently. 2488.00 of sooty farm truck goodness. What do you think I'm basing my numbers off of? Ownership numbers for a budget truck. I bought one to pull a heavy trailer, and it does that exceptionally well. I would not buy a 40,000.00 diesel truck to just jack around to the Home Depot, there are plenty of good gasoline rigs for that. Then there is the "how do I get a regular cab short bed with a diesel" conversation.

[SuperBuickGuy]

I'm impressed with the GM 6.5 diesels, guys are building them on the cheap and they last a long time, making good power, and getting *crazy* good economy. For a non-max-duty rig (what 99% of diesel truck drivers need anyhow), I'm tempted to do what you did and put together a utility truck with one.

Got any favorite forums or blogs online that you use for info?

I don't, it's simply a nice truck that I drive the wheels off.

I don't remember where I read it, though, I did follow a guy's build of a 6.5 - he lowered the compression, put a gale banks turbo on it, changed the cam; IIRC, there's someone out there that is a guru on all things 6.5... but again, I tend to look up and participate when I building a larger project and this truck hasn't really been that much of a project.... I just drive it.

I'd be interested to see you do a build on one, they are, as you say, a light-duty diesel that gets incredible mpg and weigh at least 300 lbs less than other light truck diesels.. I'd be especially interested in hearing your opinion of the new, stronger heads from this guy

http://www.ssdieselsupply.com/p129_brand_new_6.5_diesel_cylinder_head.html

[DanStokes]

All I can say for sure is that I spend about 1/2 on fuel on the Dodge vs. my 318 Dakota, which I loved. The Cummins is indestructo and dead reliable. I've gotten as much as 24 mpg on the highway and I have witnesses. He's at about 207K miles with PLENTY left. Is the Cummins lightweight? Hell no. It just runs forever.

That said, if I did it over again I'd have installed the Fass lift pump and Banks torque converter right out of the gate. Those are the weak points and are fixed forever with these two substitutions.

Let me also add - you read all kinds of negative comments about the Dodge being a great engine stuck in a bad body. I LIKE my Dodge. The seats have held up amazingly (though the driver's side is due for some freshening up), it's reasonably quiet and comfortable, and I think he's darn handsome. The door hinges and latches all work great after all this time. The body on mine has remained rust-free as are a couple of others in my neighborhood - probably not true in the rust belt but neither are the other pickups. The dashes do tend to deteriorate but that's a $250 fix when I get around to it.

I expect to drive this ol' boy for the rest of my life.

Dan

[Hemi Joel]

I love my old '93 Cummins for towing and hauling the camper. It just eats up the hills like they weren't even there. But that is after installing a bigger turbo and high flow injectors + a 4" exhaust. I've never got the big mileage numbers that other people claim. On the rare occasion when the truck has been run empty (like one or 2 tanks in 10 years) it got around 15. My gas Hemi Ram does better. But with the heavy load, and the aerodynamics of Mount Rushmore, it gets 11-12, which a gas truck couldn't touch.
My bride drove a diesel Excursion for 8 years, then my daughter drove it 4 another 2. Best vehicle we ever had. We put 280,000 miles on it, and never touched the engine or trans. I could squeeze 22 mpg out of that big beast if I drove like a librarian, but normally we got 17 - 18. It was expensive to buy, but cheap to own, especially considering the substantial resale value with those high miles.
So now I choose a gas truck for daily driving, and diesel for the big loads.

[SuperBuickGuy]

we all have our metric for what we want in a truck... of course, trash talking comes from there too because there's the insane need to be better. With that said, you folks can go run away over the mountains ahead of me to the camp site - just make sure you've split plenty of wood and got the steaks on when I get there...

[DanStokes]

First a disclaimer: My 24 MPG was on our coast-to-coast trip to CA to pick up the Avanti on the way out, unloaded. It did include hills and even mountains and was an average of some pretty long driving days. The Edge tuner was set to "Towing" (tune 2) which yields the best mileage. Coming back with the Avanti and it's cast iron trailer (it looks like a small 'dozer trailer) we got about 18 MPG - still pretty good. Grapevine was the only place where Truck even grunted and he di, for the only time in his life, get hot and we had to pull over and let him cool down.

As far as trash talk - I really don't do that other than with my tongue firmly in cheek. I just like my truck and have my reasons for doing so. And you'll probably NEVER see me at a camp site - I'll be at the restaurant relaxing while the pretty lady brings me my steak!

Dan