Junkyard source for Injectors

[fahrenschnell]

I am very new to EFI....I was curious if there are any cars out there that run 60 lb/hr or larger injectors stock....

If it is a dumb question.....Sorry.

Seth

[dieselgeek]

I am very new to EFI....I was curious if there are any cars out there that run 60 lb/hr or larger injectors stock....

If it is a dumb question.....Sorry.

Seth


not the kind you're looking for, unfortunately. TBIs had the low pressure injectors in that size, but I don't think any standard bosch style injectors come in that size except from the aftermarket...

[squirrel]

put two or three small ones on for each cylinder...right Scott?

[TheSilverBuick]

You could get fancy and do staged injection. Meaning get two sets of 32lb/hr and have the MS run off only 8 until the appropriate time/conditions warrant and the second set kick in automatically.

[fahrenschnell]

I am very new to EFI....I was curious if there are any cars out there that run 60 lb/hr or larger injectors stock....

If it is a dumb question.....Sorry.

Seth


not the kind you're looking for, unfortunately. TBIs had the low pressure injectors in that size, but I don't think any standard bosch style injectors come in that size except from the aftermarket...


I kinda figured....just thought I would ask. Thanks.

Seth

[dieselgeek]

put two or three small ones on for each cylinder...right Scott?



He could double up on a set of 32s if he wanted to, yep.
but I know he's looking for something to go right into an existing EFI manifold.

When's your first EFI project happening, Jim?

[squirrel]

Not this week...that's for sure....

I was thinking about what to do with our 87 suburban, it is still loosing coolant, so one of these days we'll probably have to put an engine in it, and it probably wont' be the same thing that's in it now. A port injected 454 would be pretty cool....and I have most of what I need to do it.....including MS. Since the truck has an in tank pump already for the TBI, it makes the hard part easy (just swap out the pump in the tank).

[fast Ed]

The Ford Lightning F-150 from 99-up had 42# sprayers, and I remember reading somewhere that the 5.4 NGV trucks had huge ones, but I don't remember the exact spec on them. Google might come up with that.


cheers
Ed N.

[Matt Cramer]

I am very new to EFI....I was curious if there are any cars out there that run 60 lb/hr or larger injectors stock....

If it is a dumb question.....Sorry.

Seth


First generation injected RX-7s run 720 cc/min (about 69 lb/hr) injectors. They only made this version for two years, before going to two injectors per rotor on the second generation. Not something that's easy to find in a boneyard, and they're a weird external size to boot.

[dieselgeek]

In all honesty Seth, this is one area where I'd recommend just buying a new set of RC Engineering flowmatched injectors.

Let me know if you'd like a hookup, I have a buddy that sells them but they're pretty much the same price everywhere else.

[fahrenschnell]

At 1000 Hp....I am figuring we need at least 75 lb/hr.....With 20# or more boost.

Does that sound right? About how much for the injectors?

Seth

[shaun callaway]

you could get away with a 60# injector and bump your fuel pressure up to approx 87psi and it will turn this injector into an 85# injector.

your probably lookin at about 500 bucks for a set of 8

[fahrenschnell]

Kurt Urban and I were talking about this and he suggested about the same thing....Sound like that is the way to go.

Seth

[shaun callaway]

yeah just get yourself a nice adjustable fuel regulator and you will be good. be sure that you match your fuel pump up accordingly (this could cause headaches).

[BBR]

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=809451

[dieselgeek]

Kurt Urban and I were talking about this and he suggested about the same thing....Sound like that is the way to go.

Seth


ehh, remember you'd have to still have boost referencing, so that 87psi fuel pressure now becomes 107psi pressure. Then you have to make sure your pump can flow the required fuel at that pressure. And it's hard on injectors.


Are you still going with MS? I'd get a set of 95s and have a little headroom and not have to jack up the pressure. They're going to cost the same as a set of 60s.

[shaun callaway]

huh i havent had this problem yet but scott is right

[dieselgeek]

huh i havent had this problem yet but scott is right


drag racers can sometimes get away with the "oh just crank up the fuel pressure, it won't hurt for a few hundred yards" thing. But seth is thinking "LSR" and "street" and we're talking about saving him $40 by cranking fuel pressure up past the rated specs for a set of injectors (and likely the flow of the pump he's running). This is a good time to just recommend he go with a nice set of RCs or equivalent. RC does really good flowmatching, whereas we've tested a set of the "green tops" from Summit on huber's injector flowbench and found them to be 10% variance as delivered. The RCs always flow within 1-2%.

[fahrenschnell]

We are going with a Walbro which runs all the time and a Bosch 044 fuel pump which turns on when boost reaches 4-5 pounds.....I too think that I might go a little larger to avoid running out of injector later in the season. That way we can run a little less pressure as well and keep up the volume.

I think we are going to run the stock PCM with a LPE piggyback unit that allows us to boost reference....With a good tune.

Seth

[shaun callaway]

RC is really good and they are not far from my work.

the siemens-deko 60# high impeadance injectors actually operate really well at 87 psi (turning them into 85# injectors) but this is all NA.

RC's phone number is 310-320-2277

[shaun callaway]

stock PCM with a LPE piggyback unit

Seth


OMG

[fahrenschnell]

Who is RC? Just for my own reference.

Seth

[shaun callaway]

Who is RC? Just for my own reference.

Seth


RC Engineering

They do fuel injectors

http://www.rceng.com/

[fahrenschnell]

stock PCM with a LPE piggyback unit

Seth


OMG


Why?

[shaun callaway]

stock PCM with a LPE piggyback unit

Seth


OMG


Less headache if you just go with a MS but that is my opinion.

How much is the software for the stock pcm and the piggy back going to run you man?

Why?

[fahrenschnell]

We already have paid for the license for HP Tuners....We used it to tune for the past few years.

The piggyback is about $275 if I remember correctly.

Seth

[shaun callaway]

We already have paid for the license for HP Tuners....We used it to tune for the past few years.

The piggyback is about $275 if I remember correctly.

Seth


how much was the license for the HP

[fahrenschnell]

I would have to ask my brother....I think it was $275....

Seth

[dieselgeek]

They should be able to get the stock PCM to do what they want with the right tuning.

One word of caution though, i was recommending low impedance (aka "peak and hold") injectors, your PCM might not support them without an external driver or (gasp) a resistor pack. Check on that before you order the RCs. RC used to have high impedance injectors ("saturated") in sizes to 80lb/hr, check with the tuning experts for your combo on those too.

[fahrenschnell]

What about something like these? I am asking sheerly out of curiosity...

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TFS-89095&N=700+400098+4294925239+4294839074+4294870762+115&autoview=sku

Seth

[fahrenschnell]

What is the harm in going with a larger than needed injectors? I am thinking that if they cost roughly the same...Why not buy the larger ones?

Seth

[shaun callaway]

larger ones give you room to grow.

i think the highest saturated injectors RC has on their site is 71's but you may want to call them, and they have a 114 lb peak and hold for the same price as a 71 saturated.

[dieselgeek]

What is the harm in going with a larger than needed injectors? I am thinking that if they cost roughly the same...Why not buy the larger ones?

Seth


the only harm I can think of, is that you may run into drivability/startup/stumble type issues if you cannot tune very accurately for the bigger injectors, and factory PCM may have issues with gigantic ones.

[shaun callaway]

What is the harm in going with a larger than needed injectors? I am thinking that if they cost roughly the same...Why not buy the larger ones?

Seth


the only harm I can think of, is that you may run into drivability/startup/stumble type issues if you cannot tune very accurately for the bigger injectors, and factory PCM may have issues with gigantic ones.


x2

[shaun callaway]

Seth

Rc has some really cool work sheets to help you figure out exactly what you need see the link http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

[fahrenschnell]

Thanks Shawn & Scott...That should help....

Seth

PS.....How about the Trickflow Injectors? They are flowmatched as well.

[shaun callaway]

right on

[dieselgeek]

Thanks Shawn & Scott...That should help....

Seth

PS.....How about the Trickflow Injectors? They are flowmatched as well.



lots of them say "flowmatched" but lately I've only really had great experiences with RC Engineering.

[fahrenschnell]

Good to know. Hmmm...

Seth

[shaun callaway]

yes RC's actually come with a printout pertaining to the injectors in the box.

[shaun callaway]

you also want to be sure that you dont get injectors that have been on the shelf for a long period of time. the lubricants that are used can sometimes gum the injectors up and that my friend is a whole other issue.

[greenjunk]

I need to get you the number for a guy seth. What you need to feed that kinda power is an eliminator pump with a -10 pickup, -8 feed, to two -6 lines, to the rail, with a referenced regulator. Thats all the will keep up, even the 1000hp ecs kit won't go over 700rwhp (they claim its 1000to the crank) You also will prolly need a dual nozzle alky kit. Check out this setup, This guy (richard, and I) have gone over and over this stuff to figure out what would work. it has 95lbers and the impedence convertor.
http://www.2k1vert.com/c5/photo_gallery/c5r/index8.html
I just about built this whole car and went through all the pains of trying to make 1000rwhp. It only made it to 916, at 20+lbs.

[greenjunk]

The pics show the upper setup, but not the new lower, it shows the original ecs setup. The top pretty much stayed the same. The bigger problem we ran into with the setup was crankcase pressure. if you see theres 2 -8s into the valve covers, and a -8 out of the inlet for the blower with a catch can in between. One other problem was it was lifting the heads at 20lbs. thats with 90lbft on the bolts. so O-ring it. It wouldn't blow the gaskets cause they were copper and with a stainless ring in em. but it would push a lot of water on the dyno.

[fahrenschnell]

Very Nice Dave....Kurt said all LSX motors push water at over 20lbs.....We expect that we will have a VERY full overflow tank at the end of the track. ;)

We are using 6062 mls gaskets....Kurt uses them on everything up to 1500+ HP....

We are planning on using a walbro pump as primary w/ a Bosch 044 that kicks on at 5 lbs.....both pump combined are rated at 1400 HP.

Now the most important question.....Is methanol injection legal at Maxton? I know that alcohol is not allowed in the SuperStreet Class.....But would methanol count?

Does Richard have fuel injectors? Flowmatched ones?

Seth
Seth

[greenjunk]

yes 95lbers

Meth is legal in all fuel classes, but not as a primary fuel source, just as a secondary intercooler.

[fahrenschnell]

yes 95lbers

Meth is legal in all fuel classes, but not as a primary fuel source, just as a secondary intercooler.


To Sell?

I wonder how methanol interacts with Q16....Hmm

Seth

[greenjunk]

no not to sell, thats what in the car
meth mixes with all fuels. the lt1 ta i worked on, had all kinds of different fuels in it, including the illegal in all classes oxyegenatied stuff. man i miss spelled that but don't care

[fahrenschnell]

Good deal...Probably will be an upgrade for early summer..Thanks

Seth