rajay turbo sbc stuff I picked up at yard sale

[sawracer]

Scored a pass side exh manifold with a rajay turbo and blow off valve hooked to it. Appears to be designed to work together. Is this crap? 400 hp small block easy or a can of worms?

[sawracer]

here's a pic.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a283/gobrdgo/PC150417.jpg

[sawracer]

Ok I put this in the wrong section! Can you stick this in the tech section?

[Dynoroom]

Ya, a Rajay turbo like that will make 400 easy. That is a very durable turbo, used them for years on boats and things.

As for the blow off valve, it's not. It's a waste gate valve, ya don't need a blow off valve. Anyone says you do is full of it.

Lastly............

Get the dang thing off your wife's washing machine!!!

[BACK IN BLACK Z]

I know that there is a guy at nastyz28.com that is looking for some of those parts. If you go there, look in the swapmeet section under forums..Johnny

[flyinhillbilly]

Ya, a Rajay turbo like that will make 400 easy. That is a very durable turbo, used them for years on boats and things.

As for the blow off valve, it's not. It's a waste gate valve, ya don't need a blow off valve. Anyone says you do is full of it.

Lastly............

Get the dang thing off your wife's washing machine!!!
that is one awesome blanket statement. i disagree.

i believe that you need a bov because when you slam the throttle blades shut it creates a pressure spike that forces the shaft against the thrust bearing. the thrust bearing is very important to the longevity of the turbo because when it gets worn enough the compressor wheel is going to contact the housing, and it's rebuild time.

also, if you are running a blow through carb, a bov is important because all that boost has nowhere to go when you lift and it will pressurize the floatbowls disproportionatley to the intake vacum, and the idle circuts are going to piss a stream.

a $100 blow off valve is cheap insurance against accelerated wear of your turbo

i use my bov as a vent at idle to loose the positive pressure above the throttle blades causing a rich condition at idle. i pulled the stiffer of the two spings out and that allows engine vacum to hold the bov open at idle, making it easier to tune.

furthermore, i don't believe that your theory would wash with a procharger either, boost at idle would be a bad situation. all cs companies send bov's with thier kits right? don't most car manufacturers put bov's on thier cars stock? (excluding diesels for obvious reasons) you better call them and tell them you have found a way to save them millions, you could probably get a sweet job as an engineer if you do.



if that would have read "you don't need a blow off valve in a drawthrough application like that probably originally was" then i would agree wholeheartedly.

[flyinhillbilly]

Scored a pass side exh manifold with a rajay turbo and blow off valve hooked to it. Appears to be designed to work together. Is this crap? 400 hp small block easy or a can of worms?
can you measure the inlet part of the compressor wheel, and there should be some numbers either in the turbine housing inlet, or on the turbine housing (for instance .96 or it could be a cm measurement, i'm not that familiar with rajay turbos, but i know who to ask ;D), and post those please? those measurements will determine the turbo's hp capability ( know the larger diamater of the compressor wheel would help too, but i would understand if you don't want to take your new turbo apart. also does the shaft have any side to side or in and out play?

[sawracer]

First thanks for your help. Ok model # 3aj1EE13b1 serial # 0092178 part # 600586621 or 600586?21
I tried to measure the visible part of the hot side wheel 61mm, visible part of cold side 55mm, This is rough measuring because I can't get the calipers inside due to the housing. I aslo found a random TC 85-2 on the aluminum side. The play seems minimal in the turbo to me. Could this actually be a baby step to a turbo motor? If it's too small for a 350 should I use it as a draw thru setup on my flathead four model a ford, it's about 200 cubes? I could sell it but for what it's worth it would probably be more fun to run on something. THANKS AGAIN

[Eric68]

Get the dang thing off your wife's washing machine!!!


Nah, that's a Maytag Neptune -- if it is anything like my old Neptune it probably doesn't work anyway. ;)

Sorry for the tangent . . .

[RacerRick]

First thanks for your help. Ok model # 3aj1EE13b1 serial # 0092178 part # 600586621 or 600586?21
I tried to measure the visible part of the hot side wheel 61mm, visible part of cold side 55mm, This is rough measuring because I can't get the calipers inside due to the housing. I aslo found a random TC 85-2 on the aluminum side. The play seems minimal in the turbo to me. Could this actually be a baby step to a turbo motor? If it's too small for a 350 should I use it as a draw thru setup on my flathead four model a ford, it's about 200 cubes? I could sell it but for what it's worth it would probably be more fun to run on something. THANKS AGAIN


That rayjay is a 301 series with a E compressor and an E turbine, and a 1.0A/r. Its flow map is identical to a AiResearch T04b with a V1/V2 compressor. Good to about 425hp. I have the exact same turbo on my camaro right now. Works good. If I keep the car I am toying with upgrading the compressor to a 60-1. Turbonetics has rebuild parts and new turbos if you need them. That turbo can be used in a drawthrough system.

You system is missing most of its parts. A turbo that size should on one of these old kits should be fed from both sides of the V8 but I don't see anyplace for the crossover pipe to feed into. If the manifold doesn't have a place for a crossover pipe, it means that is half of a twin turbo setup. Also, the turbo flange is real high above the manifold, so its most likely originally for a truck or RV. Every car one I have seen is much lower and more out and to the side.

I have lots of experience with these old systems and can tell you that most of them are junk. The best ones are the old Martin systems - that is not one of them.

Do you have any more pics?

[sawracer]

The manifold has another hole to feed from the other side, (underneath where the turbo bolts on) I imagine this to be good news. Also good news that you are saying the turbo can handle fuel running thru it? If the seals can hang this going to be a draw thru setup on something. It sucks I yanked and sold the small block in my elco for a big block conversion. I was hot to run a turbo big block and even went as far as buying a turbo but I received so much conflicting info from the experts that I quickly got nervous and pulled the plug from the project. Being a family man I need to be responsible with my combos, can't afford to spend too much money on pricey not so "sure things".

[sawracer]

Oh yeah, battery is dead in my cam, but in the pic where you see the blue anodized oil fitting, that is where the other side exhaust would pipe in. Thanks again for the great help! I look forward to helping others in here when the chance arrives.

[flyinhillbilly]

if it were me i'd go blowthrough since you don't have the wierd splitter thingie that goes under the carb.you can buy a hat at autozone for about $79 and get a cheap blowoff valve from ebay, they work fine mine is 2+years old and keeps on hammering along. the carb mods are pretty minimal, here are a couple of links

blow through holley how to http://www.hangar18fabrication.com/blowthru.html

blow through edelbrock how to http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/index.php?topic=22107.0

a boost referenced edelbrock manual fuel pump would keep up fine at 450 hp too, i can give you easy instructions on how to get it done.

the main reason i'd go blowthrough is due to the easier starting, i don't know much about drawthrough, and what i do know about it is secondhand info.

[Dynoroom]

Ya, a Rajay turbo like that will make 400 easy. That is a very durable turbo, used them for years on boats and things.

As for the blow off valve, it's not. It's a waste gate valve, ya don't need a blow off valve. Anyone says you do is full of it.

Lastly............

Get the dang thing off your wife's washing machine!!!
that is one awesome blanket statement. i disagree.

i believe that you need a bov because when you slam the throttle blades shut it creates a pressure spike that forces the shaft against the thrust bearing. the thrust bearing is very important to the longevity of the turbo because when it gets worn enough the compressor wheel is going to contact the housing, and it's rebuild time.

also, if you are running a blow through carb, a bov is important because all that boost has nowhere to go when you lift and it will pressurize the floatbowls disproportionatley to the intake vacum, and the idle circuts are going to piss a stream.

a $100 blow off valve is cheap insurance against accelerated wear of your turbo

i use my bov as a vent at idle to loose the positive pressure above the throttle blades causing a rich condition at idle. i pulled the stiffer of the two spings out and that allows engine vacum to hold the bov open at idle, making it easier to tune.

furthermore, i don't believe that your theory would wash with a procharger either, boost at idle would be a bad situation. all cs companies send bov's with thier kits right? don't most car manufacturers put bov's on thier cars stock? (excluding diesels for obvious reasons) you better call them and tell them you have found a way to save them millions, you could probably get a sweet job as an engineer if you do.



if that would have read "you don't need a blow off valve in a drawthrough application like that probably originally was" then i would agree wholeheartedly.


Not wanting to get into a he said she said I stand by my statement. You don't need a BOV on any turbo system (belt driven blowers are different). If you choose to run one for the thrust bearing issue mentioned that's fine but a Rajay has one of the toughest thrust bearings in the industry and being that I did work in the engineering dept of Rotomaster when they owned Rajay I don't recall any bov being sent out with there turbos or kits. The fact is that's one of the reasons why the thrust bearing is there, to handle compressor pressure load.

As for the OE's they do it for many reasons one being emissions as they do not want positive back pressure in the inlet ducting or the charcoal canister etc. You're not going to destroy your thrust bearing by not running a bov, hell there never even was such a thing as a bov until around 1985.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with running a bov. I'm just saying you don't need to spend the money on one if you don't want to. It will run fine in this application.

I have never run a BOV on any of my systems either street or race & I have run 1 or 2.
Your entitled to you opinion, but don't make me say you full of it ;D.

No BOV here...
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p126/Dynoroom/3-16-07044.jpg

Or here, Yep I was at Indy with 4 qualified cars in '87 & 88
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p126/Dynoroom/3-16-07015.jpg

And the pressure releif valve only would open when boost chamber pressure was above what it USAC set it to. The throttle was before the plenum chamber so that valve had no bearing on pressure spikes after the throttle was closed.

[flyinhillbilly]

you know, that was a much more mature reply than i was expecting, but i stand by my statements as well, i did damge a thrust bearing running without a blowoff valve after only boosting a few times, i will run one on all mine. to each thier own i suppose.

[RacerRick]

I would run it in a blow through system also since its much easier and most of those valves mentioned are junk. Its much easier.

BOV's can be used, but I don't have one on my camaro. The turbo system has been on the car since the car was purchased brand new in 1980. Neither myself or the original owner ever have had any turbo problems. I just had the turbo rebuilt because it was sitting around for many years when I got the car.

I might need to pick Dynorooms brain one of these days on several topics. The guy really seems to know his stuff.

[Robert1320]

Saw

Gald you got rid of the that old kit. Lots of better stuff out there.

IHMO

If you are building a diy kit I would recommend a good BOV and W/G. They are cheap insurance.
And I have seen a cheap BOV fail, a turbo surge and break.
I guess some people don't push their stuff hard enough.

[RacerRick]

Mine is a mild street system, but has been used for road racing without a problem. Its also a drawtrough system with a vacumn operated bypass so the turbo is bypassed 100% when the engine is under vacumn - like letting off the throttle. The turbo sees no pressure spike from suddenly closing the throttle blades because its a drawthrough. The turbo just suddenly is sitting in a vacumn.

For a blowthrough system, a BOV is a good idea for that reason. Wastegates are needed when the turbos airflow capacity exceeds the capacity of the engine. A well matched turbo setup doesn't need a wastegate as it will be self limiting, but will not make nearly as much power as larger turbos. My car doesn't have either a BOV or wastegate because it doesn't need it with the current turbo. If I upgrade to a 60-1 compressor, I will need a wastegate to keep boost levels at a safe level.

[Robert1320]

Turbo are like cams

Everyone ends up with one too big.....

[RacerRick]

The rayjay I am using has a turbo map identical to a T04B with a V1 wheel, so I am only good to about 425hp. Works fine for my engine since its mild.

If I upgrade to the 60-1, I will need a whole new shortblock if I want it to stay together.

[Robert1320]

I have worked on a couple of those.
It is a simple stocker bolt-on (mostly)

I don't know of anyone who only wants 400 hp....

[dieselgeek]

Dynoroom's points are interesting here.

I've seen at least two people who THOUGHT their BOVs were junk, and causing multiple turbo failures, when further inspection showed that boost leaks were the culprit. Leaking charge pipe coupling combined with an electronic wastegate controller, was the problem - the wastegate controller would clamp down the gate to maintain pressure on the gate, which required overspeeding the turbocharger and the turbo would come apart. If I had a nickel for every internet genius that told us our problems were BOV related, we could have bought the replaced turbochargers. The internet is full of "experts." ::)

[Dynoroom]

That's ok Geek, I don't run my stuff hard enough....

[KeithTurk]

That's always going to be an issue with the internet...

Since we don't come with pre-determined qualifications we have to establish them over time... and folks often start talking before they realize who they are talking to.... or without understanding the context of a conversation...

Not saying anyone here jumped the gun or said the wrong thing... just stating what should be obvious... we're all new and each of us will take some sorting out....

Think of it as standing around at a cruise night in a new town... Everyone has the biggest Pud for a while... and over time we'll sort it all out...

Biggest thing is to be nice while we're doing it...

Keith ... ( and Mike... you really SHOULD run your junk harder.. )

[JeffMcKC]

There are a lot of keyboard racers out there

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/JeffMcKC/Key.jpg

But, I tell myself every Idiot has at least one good idea.

[KeithTurk]

Yeah but ya gotta realize Jeff that some of these folks have done well locally and have equal amounts of credibility in thier world as we have in ours...

The real key is to be nice and not discount folks before we have a chance to get to know each other... Hmmm

K

[JoeyG]

An expert is merely someone who has f'ed up enough to know the difference. To those who have fought the battles/issues before, Thanks for saving me some headaches.

[flyinhillbilly]

experience is one of those things that you don't get untill just after you needed it.

[sawracer]

I appreciate the advice on the subject and I know there is a turbo in my future. I gave the rajay setup to my buddy with a 72? stocker 350 buick wanna be GSX. He helped me clear out a spot for my new to me bridgeport in my shop. He is addicted to buying ands selling cars so I will probably get the kit back anyhow when he tires of the car, which he will. I just hope I am less poor then.

[RacerRick]

heheh - he want to sell it? I don't mind screwing around with these old systems. It would be pretty cool on the 57!

[Robert1320]

Mis-information on the interweb is bad.
Worse are those that do know passing bad info to the newbies.
There are huge distances between my racecar & others, and a DYI street set-up.

[RacerRick]

Most likely you stress things just a tad more than a low boost street setup that runs on premium unleaded. I also bet you don't use 25 year old turbos!

[flyinhillbilly]

i think that's what's going on here. my car for instance has a t6 frame turbocharger that will move 1068 lb/minute of air. the inertia of big wheels + big boost + no bov = bad. if i were only running 3-5 psi with a 60mm turbo a bov would be much less important. i think we're just from different worlds with what we're looking for from our turbochargers. me and robert are forever online at turbomustangs.com, over there 9 second daily driven street cars are the norm. the guy here says he is only looking for 400hp, and with the amount of boost (very little ) required to reach that goal he would probably be ok. if it were mine i'd run a bov just the same because it makes a carb a little easier to tune at idle if you set your bov up to be open at idle, also as a prevenative measure, kind of like taking vitamin c. you never really know that it kept you from getting sick, but it can't hurt.