Skid Mark - how fast for 5k?

[Beagle]

Okay, so I've been sucked into this and I'm looking at a 84 no option notch, but may be able to retrieve my 400.00 89 LSC to do this with. I'm posting the budget with the 84 as a starting point, the 89 would be easier to start with, it has a lot of the junk I need already.

The asterisks mark stuff I already have. I can't figure out how to put a table in this post, sorry for the alignment issues.

400 c6 and 460 *
650 mustang - still in the air
450 drag radials and skinnies - craigslist, found a couple sets, some cheaper
150 Frame connectors
500 Roll bar
110 carb * 750 holley ebay
200 pistons * forged ross .030 used, ebay
440 rods * new h-beams
20 cam * Ebay blue racer Score!
40 lifters * local mass builder
100 pan * ebay
70 bearings * local mass builder
40 gasket set * local mass builder
110 intake * ebay torker - yuck, but 50 pounds lighter than stock.
150 c6 kit
200 brakes and 8.8 with 3.55
150 exhaust bends
340 turbo * ebay chang wow hx55 ripoff
200 intercooler
200 wg and bov
100 carb rebuild and jets
150 radiator * motorsports fox radiator from another project
150 Fuel pumps * 190 pound mustang pumps
50 driveshaft * from an old project
-50 sell c4
-20 scrap - radiator and 7.5, brakes
60 motor mounts * ebay stands (50.00) and 5.00 six cylinder mustang pads

4960

Oooops. 185 for block cleaning, bore and cam bearings installed, 50 for plugs and wires. I may have to rethink claiming the rollbar. :|

/edit - oops again. Needs balancer and balance. Can I take back what I said about claiming the rollbar? grin.

Depending on how much stuff I can sell from the Mustang, or if I can get the LSC back here, this will change. It's a fairly realistic starting point though, with a bit of wiggle room, I expect some things to be a bit cheaper and that will hopefully cover the oil / lube / silicone. The turbo is an chang wow HX55 ripoff , should be around .75 kg/s potentially. I don't think the setup I have is gonna flow that much. As it starts going together, I'll put more detail into the parts.

[Bob Holmes]

Nice accounting there. Gonna be a squeaker...better drop counting the roll bar.

[milner351]

Is there a good way to copy and paste to here from excel? I have a pretty good budget for the ranger in a spreadsheet.

[Beagle]

I had to paste it into notepad in a feeble attempt to get the tabs lined up - still had to hand edit here.

[BBR]

You can make a list like this
with bullets
next to the items


Or change the justification


like this

:)

[Stich496]

You can make a list like this
with bullets
next to the items


Or change the justification


like this

:)

I did that put when posted it all moved to the left margin..
thats why mine has ----------- to try to line up the numbers

[Beagle]

I tried saving as .txt - let's see how this looks. Also, since it may come to pass that I get my Lincoln back, it is a game changer. Updated budget:

400 c6 and 460 *
400 Lincoln LSC , think it's an 89, can't remember *
500 16 slicks and mounting / balancing
150 Frame connectors
!500 Roll bar - safety item, not included in total
110 carb *
200 pistons *
440 rods *
20 cam *
40 lifters *
100 pan *
70 bearings *
40 gasket set *
110 intake *
150 c6 kit
150 exhaust bends
340 turbo *
200 intercooler
200 wg and bov
100 carb rebuild and jets
150 radiator *
150 Fuel pumps *
150 estimate on driveshaft mods if necessary *
-300 sell aode and 302 EFI
! 50 Driveshaft loop (safety, not included in total)
60 motor mounts - 50.00 ebay stands and 2x5.00 six cylinder
65 mustang frame pads from Rockauto *
185 Bore and clean block, cam bearings and freeze plugs installed
200 Balance
50 25.00 wires (ebay) 24.00 plugs (rounded up)
50 Used mustang springs, rear control arms (replace air bags)
I don't know if I can sell the air ride junk or not. Maybe.
35 Air cleaner + dryer vent hose mods (ram air baby)
________________________________________________

4450


The car is a lot heavier but also has a 3.27 8.8 w/ disc rear that is a good fit for the 460. I was looking at fiberglass and carbon fiber materials this morning. I wonder how hard it is to do a hood mold? I think it's gonna be an excercise in getting weight out of the front of this mother.


I think I'd like to get it to run with the 460 and then worry about the chang wow turbo. I'm sure I'm overlooking something major... also wondering if the torker p.o.s. manifold is low enough to get the hood closed. It's got an Oklahoma title, registering it is gonna be a bitch. It was never transferred to the last guy that I bought it from. Probably better if I just kept it off the street.


/edit - even manual formatting gets ripped from the posts here. Maybe I'll screen shot the next one and put it in as a pic.

Almack (on here maybe still?) said the D5 manifolds fit well with his t-birds. Those are the boat anchor manifolds I have, think I'll do that first. The headers are $$$ from Hooker and every post I see about them says they fit like ass. Crites has some that are mid length and around 300. I might look into that.

[TheSilverBuick]

I've never had luck with the table features of forum posting. =/

[BBR]

My car has Hookers on it. They needed a little help here and there, but they were cheap. Just gotta watch 460Ford.com. Used sets pop up all the time.

[Mater]

I've never had luck with the table features of forum posting. =/

i did nto even bother trying to line the prices up

[Beagle]

Brian, would it be possible to change the name of this thread to "Skid Mark... trying for plaid on 5k" ?

sorry to be a pain, but it looks like it takes a mod. Thank you...

[Stich496]

Brian, would it be possible to change the name of this thread to "Johny Skid Marks... trying for plaid on 5k" ?

sorry to be a pain, but it looks like it takes a mod. Thank you...

hehe

[Beagle]

Filthy Achmed's Rusty Trombone.

Guess it could be Ford -

Filthy Omar's Rebellious Donkey

[Bob Holmes]

:ha::ha:

[milner351]

Beags - what you do with your Donkey is your business - I don't want to hear about it!
:shocked::laugh:

[Beagle]

irony. .

I turned down a free donkey this weekend. Seriously. While picking up the Lincoln (only six months later. cough) I was offered a jenny. Ah, well, that's nice, but no thanks.

Turd is on the trailer barely - getting a flat suspensioned air ride Ford onto a trailer is a major hassle. It caught on everythign, I had the trailer damn near 45* (felt like it, but not really) before it would clear. I left it on there... worn out from putting it up there to begin with. I'll drag if off next weekend. At least it's home. :)

[milner351]

Progress is progress! I'm confused (happens often) aren't you building a solid flat tappet 302 for something? Is that for this project instead of the 460?

[Beagle]

the 302 is for the thunderbird. This one got evicted, I have been dragging junk from central TX to further north N. Central Tx for months, am worn out with it but I'm happy to have it back. :) Long story. I remembered the donkey commentary and thought it was funny as hell that I would get offered one while picking this turd up yesterday. Much funnier than dragging a Lincolnd laying on the dirt on top of a trailer. cough.

There's still a machine shop fresh wrapped in plastic 460 under the bench, and I'm easily distracted. The 302 thing was a spur of the moment deal.

[milner351]

air ride - responsible for guys like us picking up cheap Lincolns for years. I turned it off on Dad's 98 towncar in storage for the winter - I think it was slowly leaking down, then pumping itself back up - all while killing the battery (trickle charger couldn't keep up)

[STINEY]

My car has Hookers on it. They needed a little help here and there, but they were cheap.

For some reason today I find this post HILARIOUS. :laugh:

[BBR]

If you're gonna have cheap hookers, more is better.

[Beagle]

So long as they are not dead ... but then they rarely give you much trouble

[STINEY]

and they needed a little help here and there........

:laugh:

[SuperBuickGuy]

texans and hookers, what could be more right?

[Beagle]

That's a question for Bruab I think?

Just occurred to me that a Lincoln LSC and a new Camaro weigh about the same. Hmmmm. I think the LSC is getting a drag week nod.

I have an un-transferred title here, but hey, here's something new... I can't find it. How hard is it to get a bonded title?

[SuperBuickGuy]

Don't know about Texas, but if it's similar to Washington or Montana it's really easy. Keep in mind there are two types of titles when you have to get the car in your name (when the title's lost) a bonded title is that - you buy a bond for the agreed value of the car and if someone owns the car; that bond pays them the value of the car (normally speaking, if that happens you have to pay back the bonding company).... there is another way, you can file for a provisionary title - in that case after a period of time the title converts into a regular title (3 years generally). For both titles the application process is the same. You file a document with DMV that describes the car, how you got the car (bill of sale is important), and you pay a fee (and bond if that's the route you take).

Funny, I'm going through this right now on a 50 Buick that's been sitting for at least 40 years.

[BBR]

Looky:

http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/titles/bonded.htm

Oh yeah, keep those air springs! They allow monster weight transfer. I have a friend with a 347 powered one and it hikes the nose up nicely when launching. Looks badass.

[Beagle]

the bags are toast, what about 4cyl Mustang springs? :)

[BBR]

Sure! This thread is approaching Bob levels of photographic phail.

[Beagle]

I just got the bitch home last night, it was raining, and it was dark... I swear to dog... it's not my fault!

[Mater]

what did the dog have to do with it lol

[TheSilverBuick]

^^ That signature picture is awesome!

[Beagle]

http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp220/DFA_Beagle/IM000324.jpg

http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp220/DFA_Beagle/IM000323.jpg


I'm on call today so can't do much without fear of phone ringing... but here's the turd laying on the trailer. 400.00 worth of stud buggy... I'm thinking about getting it weighed, may be a scrap investment. Good running 302, crapped out AOD. It shifted into gear, just no friction materials from what it feels like.

Step one - get large turd off of trailer. It strained my winch pretty hard and got more or less drug up the trailer, I'm not sure how the exhaust system is doing, I was pissed so up it came. I can imagine it needs help... something hung pretty good the first attempt. I had to crank the jack on the trailer up as far as it would go to get it to clear and something was still dragging. Ooops.

The interior is pretty ghetto, I'll get some pics of it up later. This camera is on it's last legs, the other is at the ranchlet. :(


The bottom picture shows BRB's hitch height being too high still, I decided to just use it even though it is dripping. I have the new HPOP for it but it wasn't leaking as bad as I remembered so I just drove the dang thing. 18.5 mpg pulling a trailer, and dripping about a quart of diesel /100 miles. I'm pretty stoked. When I put the car on the trailer, it had my Lightning's rear end down pretty hard. The F250 laughed at it, I should have moved it up another couple of inches.

One other small problem - you can't open either door right now. I'm not sure step one shouldn't be "Get springs under bitch kitty." I have 50.00 in four Mustang springs and I'll have to look again but I think it was like 25.00 in a couple of Cougar control arms that are probably too short by a small bit. We'll see if they work or not. I'm thinking it will just change the pinion angle until I get something else figured out ?

[Mater]

that is low

i thought they had coil pring front ends? or is all 4 corners air bags? never worked on one as they are way out of warrenty lol

[TheSilverBuick]

Limo tint on the windows, small American flags on the front corners, and go run some 10's!

[milner351]

Nice trailer.
Didn't I tell ya once you went with a turbo diesel you'd never look back?
There's something very satisfying and safe about having a little "too much truck" for jobs like these.

Lordy my - this stud mobile / bitch kitty is a low rider in the worst way.

I surely hope the air spring conversion isn't a horrid ordeal. From where i'm sitting - a couple 10 or 12 foot long 2x10s or similar would help a hole lot getting that low heavy thing off the trailer and into your shop where you can work on it.

[STINEY]

A small dip or a bit of a rise or hill in your yard will go a LONG way to improving the unloading angle for that lowrider.

I'm fortunate, have a bump just off the drive that is perfect for backing a trailer up to, don't even need ramps for the sandrails. Somewhat rough on the over-80" lights though....

[Beagle]

Roger that Stiney - I put my KZ550 in the back of my old C10 one year using the hill on my dad's yard. Backed up with the gate down and rode the bike in there. We had a good time trying to find another hill to get it out when I got it to where it was going.

I picked up 2 2x12x8' boards yesterday and the on call phone did it's thing. It's magical, in an evil sort of way. You pick up a wrench, lower a ramp, ring ring... bostich. It's ironic the company won't let me work from home without their computer as the "work" item but they don't mind using MY network or MY phone. Hmmm. Anyway...

I'm reading last night and apparently the Fox body Mark Vii used the same balljoint and lower control arm as the SVO. Changing the front to coil springs means $ parts, and I'm bleeding cheap and thinking $/100 parts. I think the balljoints may be in okay shape, maybe Bob Holmes can use them... except I think he's already gone through this foolishness. I called a guy about a Fox tubular K member with coil spring perches, we'll see if I get a callback. It's 200.00 and would be a nice drop in weight. I can use SN95 stuff with it, which would make me feel better since the SVO/M7 stuff is damn hard to find..

by the way, if you want to lose half of your post, use any extended unicode character in your post. Everything afterwards.. poof!

[BBR]

Before you write off the air springs, give them a good looking over. They are prone to leak down when they get older but will air up and function fine when the car is on. There are also ride height sensors by the air springs that control the compressor and I've seen these get jacked up and not turn the compressor on.

Rock auto apparently has ball joints.

[milner351]

Tubular K member is a lot of work, but they do save a lot of weight and can cure a bunch of other ills youve already mentioned.

My friend Dan swapped one into his '68 mustang coupe - he saved over 200lb on the front end, lost the shock towers, gained rack and pinion steering, etc. it was a bunch of work though, and not cheap - but he's been really really happy with the final product.

[STINEY]

I used one from AJE with stock arms. Some creative suspending of the drivetrain would allow it to remain in the car during the k-member swap, I'm thinking unbolt the bare minimum and get 'er done?

Aren't those SVO type arms desireable for some reason? I seem to remember that some guys want them bad due to suspension geometry and keeping to the rule book for stock parts? Maybe they could be sold to recoup a good part of the tubular member?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/dv869/DSCF0478-1.jpg

[Beagle]

8397http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp220/DFA_Beagle/IM000326.jpg

bitch kitty is on the ground. Yeah, I know, I need to mow. I mean ON the ground. It actually started!! First time in about two years. Even pulled itself in first, almost. ha!

The cops came by already. They are not excited. I have it barricaded pretty good, I will have to move it in the morning. It took an hour and a half, three sets of ramps, and the trailer jacked as high as it would go for this thing to get off the trailer. It's dragging part of the exhuast on the ground. I let it run for a bit but it wouldn't fill up the bags. :(

There's not a lot to the bags except real estate under the hood that the 460 might want. I may go with a 387/393 instead but first things first. I may have to drag it back up some ramps to get my jack under it. hahaha. My neighbors are probably slightly less thrilled than the cops. This is the biggest eyesore in my neighborhood, but hell, so is my house. F* em if they can't take a joke. I'll get it cleaned up by spring!!

Is it just me or does it look like enough room for a 33x12.50 in those fenderwells?

Sorry I didn't get a picture of my ghetto redneck ramp setup - the 2x12's flexed almost to the ground. This sucker is heavy.

[STINEY]

8397Sorry I didn't get a picture of my ghetto redneck ramp setup - the 2x12's flexed almost to the ground. This sucker is heavy.

I was hoping for pictures of the cops with the car!

Congrats on getting it "on the ground".

Had an out-of-the-box thought.......would it be as cheap or cheaper to stick aftermarket bags in where the stockers are located? Is it even possible? I've never seen one of these factory setups so I'm just throwing darts in the dark here.....

[Beagle]

the bag is supposed to be changeable very easily, about 80.00 apiece... that'd be the easiest. The compressor seems to be working but at it's age I'm not surprised if the o-rings or solenoids on the bags are toast. I didn't get a chance yesterday to mess with it, these work guys are serious about on-call.

The interior sure didn't like sitting in the sun the last couple of years, and I remember now why it was 400.00 - owned by a 16 year old who was pretty good at taking things apart (okay, not so good) and really not so good at putting them back together. I'd say something if I didn't have the same problem. Pffft.

[BBR]

Good Lincoln info:

http://www.fordvschevy.com/chevy-ford-forums/forum/17-lincoln-tech/

[TheSilverBuick]

How about simply getting an aftermarket compressor and maybe air tank and hooking it to the stock bags after replacement? Or did I just state the obvious?

[BBR]

ohh Looky

http://www.arnottindustries.com/part_LINCOLN_Air_Suspension_Parts_yid2_pid17.html

Better pics at O'Rreilly

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ARN0/C2224.oap?year=1987&make=Lincoln&model=Mark%2BVII&vi=1188402&ck=Search_C0418_ARN_1188402_860&mn=Arnott+Air+Suspension&mc=ARN&pt=C0418&ppt=C0035

[Bob Holmes]

Sure! This thread is approaching Bob levels of photographic phail.

HEY NOW!!!!

Thought you snuck that one in, eh...

Ima gonna keep an eye on you....:shocked:

[Beagle]

Okay, apparently these automatic thingies need fluid. Who knew? It's in the drive, and ... under it's own power. 3 quarts low seems to be a problem for these AOD's. It actually compression braked when I was coming up the alley!! I feel so much better. Monica, not so impressed. The back bags filled way too much, the front bags, nothing. Prolly an easy fix? I'm tickled the thing moved by itself. It even started idling at 800 steady after a couple of minutes and sounds too good to take it apart. Ooops. Sorry bout that BC.

I'm actually pretty stoked - the title/bond folks are dragging their ass though. Not enough money I guess? I checked resale and "poor" said 1700? Meh. Really? Smoking bitch kitty in the drive, FTW! Big moment for me. Monica? not feeling it. Ha.

/edit - uh, well, power steering is pooped. Seems like it wants fluid too? Checking on that but after cranking on the wheel with no PS I'm thinking it will be fine with a manual rack. Somewhere around 83 or 84 they changed the fox racks? Does anyone have a manual post 84 rack for a Fox body for cheap?

[Beagle]

Monica sez it'll never get done. No more communication from me until it's at least inspected, tagged, and driving.

[Bob Holmes]

I thought I posted here that we're building one of these for a LeMon's car. Well....actually someone else is building it, I've donated a bunch of the Blue Bitch's cast offs. I'll have to go over and take some pics. We're converting to a set of comp springs that I had left over, I also gave them a set of extra SVO FLCAs and RLCAs that were in the boneyard, I don't know if they got them to work.

Its a bit of a shame, the car was the principal builder's Grandma's car. The paint and interior were spotless. But he says his Grandma was flat out enthusiastic about the use.

[SuperBuickGuy]

you'd give up your woman for that car? Beags, I know all about Ford guys, but really?!!!

[milner351]

I knew a Monica in school - I hope yours is like her, if so - she'll understand.

Great to know ol' abe came to life for ya - tuff call - having bags would be cool at times, but if it's $$ and a headache, swapping to coils FTW.

[Beagle]

I didn't phrase that right - I meant I wouldn't be on here as much...I need to spend time in the garage and not on the keyboard. Thank god for work downtime, I can still get my fix. :)

I'd set the car on fire before letting it become a problem, but I'm surprised she's acting jealous of it already. lol. I guess the k-frame budget just got horked in favor of shiny-wear for the gf. A little :worship: goes a long ways. grin.

Apparently the SN95 uses the same length control arms as Cougar/Tbird, which is what I need for the front. I found a k-member with SN95 lca's but something doesn't sound right. The guy says it's a Maximum Motorsports unit but they say you can't use stock lower control arms. This one has stock LCA's, and the other problem is a 4.6 mount. I'm unclear on what that would mean to me, as I'm thinking about going with a plate mount anyway. If it was a total fail I wouldn't be too concerned, I'll put it under the '98. I sent a mail to see if he's still got it. 250.00 is a pretty good price if it's really a MM part and it's straight.

This brings up a big can of worms - using the stuff from an SN95 with forward offset control arms would put the wheel in the center of the fender (front to back) I think. It's way back already, I think it would look better if nothing else.

Then we get into the whole Bob's world of pain over the ball joint deal, and I'm getting confused by what fits what. The Lincoln guys say 94-95 spindles, and MM says the same thing. The ball joint on the SN95 control arm with a 94-95 spindle is supposed to work.

Bob Holmes - can you check the math I just did please? Need your help here!!

The replacement bags are starting to sound good. lol. I want the car to lose some weight and gain some space, so I'm hoping this k-member deal goes through.

[Beagle]

to clear this up, I'm thinking about using Maximum Motorsport's tubular SN95 LCA's with a forward offset for the front springs. If I use a SN95 94-95 spindle with it, I can get bigger brakes on it pretty easily. I don't know why I'm sidetracked by this, brakes are for pussies. Grin.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=tech_front_susp_7993to9604_spi ndle

describes this fiasco.

[Bob Holmes]

Beags, the SN95 ball joints are replaceable. I just did it on my conversion witht the SVO. In fact, the arms I bought came loaded and I changed the ball joints to X2s (which have a taller stud, its a geometry thing) so I have a brand new set sitting around somewhere.

If you're getting an MM for $250, it's a good deal. If nothing else, you'll be able to easily sell it on if it doesn't work for you. Carefully check all the welds for cracks, they do fatique. If It was a Griggs I'd have it magnafluxed, they have been known to crack.

The SN95 LCA is .25 shorter than the stock Continental/SVO LCA. You shouldn't notice a difference.

[Bob Holmes]

Beags, on the spindle change: I highly suggest that you buy a bump steer kit if you go this direction. I think its a good move, but, introducing any degree of bump steer is going to sour you quickly.

Measuring (and curing) bump on a strut suspension is a pain in the ass, but well worth the time invested. You definitely want to do it when you'er building the suspension, not after. Or, you'll need to tear it back apart. I'm going to have to tear apart the SVO I'm building because I needed to get a suspension under it just to roll it around. You gotta do what you gotta do.

Look around for some caster/camber plates, while not an absolute necessity they can make life easier. I think I gave my extra set to the LeMons team. Absent a set of plate, you can change caster/camber by slotting the strut mounting holes on the top of the shock tower.

If you don't already know what to look for when setting up a strut suspension geometry, let me know and I'll point you to some reference materials.

[Beagle]

I'm torn at least five different ways on this. The MM part fell through, not uncommon on CL and I don't blame the guy for taking money in hand over "can we meet tomorrow"

a) CL 50.00 Fox K-member, rack, lca's, rotors, everything.
upside, bigger brakes for the T-bird I have and plan on "fixing up" some day. (HA!)
downside, still have to get LCA's but tubular would drop a little weight. Unsprung even, but it doesn't matter to me. I'd take either side.

b) 400.00 tubular k-member, tubular lower control arms, coil over QA1's
Upside, major weight loss, header space, adjustable shocks, low miles
downside, cost, CL listing, haven't heard back from him, motor mount questions/hassles

c) relieve the T-Bird of it's k-member and LCA
Upside, paid for, available
downside - LABOR, car is unmovable afterwards until whenever I get around to it

d) 400.00 total airspring repair, four bags, new compressor, everything
downside - cost. I lost one of the rear bags, I think the compressor is limp.
upside - easy fix, minimal labor

e) 400.00 coil spring conversion, all four corners
downside - cost
upside - never find car laying on a cat in the morning. We have a leash law on cats, but the owners still get pissed when your car flattens one. Their upside? Can put cat out for the night through the mailslot / under door.

f) two air bags for the front and put schrader valves from the truck stop / airride folks on all four corners. 200.00 for the front bags, but I'm not sure they aren't a victim of crappy compressor. This would answer that and possibly provide a cheap fix.
upside - if it works, cheap way to get car off the groung
downside - if it fails, still have to decide what to do.

I need to decide really quick, like this week quick. I'm going to see if anybody local has the airline schrader valves today, but if that fails, it makes the coil / airbag dealio look favorable. I moved one vehicle, but I suspect it's a matter of days until I hear about this one too. In other news, the yard almost looks like someone lives here and the weekend was gorgeous weather! I can put three cars in the drive now. Bigtime improvement, city and neighbors should piss themselves in joy.

I'm also heading down to the DMV today and see if I can at least register it, and get the title work moving. If it's registered, they'll get largely off my ass.

[BBR]

2 words: car cover.

If it's parked on your property, they can't legally trespass to raise the cover and look under it. Heck, they can't legally trespass to look at the front windshield either.

Oh and I would go with the 400 coil conversion. Keep it mostly Mark 7 without creating too much of a bastard parts conglomerate.

[TheSilverBuick]

upside - never find car laying on a cat in the morning. We have a leash law on cats, but the owners still get pissed when your car flattens one. Their upside? Can put cat out for the night through the mailslot / under door.


:laugh: :laugh:


I vote re-airbag and compressor it.

[hauen]

I vote re-airbag and compressor it.

+!

If you re-airbag it, I'd recommend using Arnott Industries (http://www.arnottindustries.com/part_LINCOLN_Air_Suspension_Parts_yid2_pid17.html) , I rebagged the wife's Land Rover with their bags and for the price and lifetime warranty they can't be beat, in my book. Though we sold the BBT (Big Blue Turd) a few years ago, I still see the people who bought it once in a while, and the bags are still in it and still good.

[milner351]

The new name of this car should be The FLAT CAT - I know it's not a cougar, but man....freakin HILARIOUS

[racingsnake440]

I vote for springs - it's no cheaper to put bags on it so why have the extra weight and potential hassle of them failing again in the future?

[BBR]

I vote for springs - it's no cheaper to put bags on it so why have the extra weight and potential hassle of them failing again in the future?

That was my thinking. Simplify for reliability.

[Beagle]

the compressor / bags weigh about the same as springs, but I pulled the trigger on 299.00 with shipping included (267 for the budget) four corner coil spring solution.

Save the boobies?? (there are a lot of pink bows in the house, and I approve) how about... Save the kitties! :) Thanks guys, I'll let ya know how it works out. Seems like the easy answer. I had coils / lowers for the rear but after looking at it, I need the plate up top for the rear end. I'll have it by the end of the week and that'll keep the city guy happy. :)

[BBR]

Actually, I'd probably buy the conversion parts, build my own and then send them back. haha

[Beagle]

I'm pretty bad about sending in rebates, I doubt I'd send the parts back.. but they are here! I'm really looking forward to the Catmobile being off the ground by the end of the weekend!

[STINEY]

Catmobile for the win!

(Did you seriously have a cat dumb enough to not notice the car slowly smooshing it? I mean, I've seen some pretty dumb cats, but that would be some kind of Darwin award cat)

[SuperBuickGuy]

Catmobile for the win!

(Did you seriously have a cat dumb enough to not notice the car slowly smooshing it? I mean, I've seen some pretty dumb cats, but that would be some kind of Darwin award cat)

in a word, yes
Ever cleaned what remained of a cat that jumped into an engine compartment while the motor was running? or run over a cat that jumped on top of a moving tire? cats are, by and large, pretty dumb.

[STINEY]

Yep, been there and done that. In a seriously warped way, I hold a grudge against modern cars with no engine driven fans - - I miss coming up with goofy names for the mutilated survivors.

If the cat in question had survived, for instance, I would rename him "Squishy", cause that's just how I roll....

[Beagle]

Stiney, you're a sick man. I can say this because the neighbor's cat used to like to sleep on the driveshaft next to the mufflers on the Mustang. I jacked it up once to find out what "that weird noise" was after backing up a few feet. Meooowwwurrrlllffff.

He got named Dumbass at that point. He did it again another time when I was late getting the boy to school. I'm trying to remember why I called him Lumpy after that. Broke his tail, screwed him up pretty good.. he walked sideways after that. I didn't hear him going down the drive, but I did when he came out from under the car at about 20mph. I think he was on top of the differential and when I shifted he decided to bail. I looked up in the mirror to see him rolling down the road.

I felt really bad, but hell, I can't do a fifty point kitteh inspection every time I move the car. We really do have a leash law, but it's not enforced. I think that is where the phrase "Herding Cats" comes from... the guy who tried to enforce the leash law.

9720 9721

[mlcraven]

A cat named Dumbass, that's OK. I like cats, especially the ones that catch rats and snakes. A really nasty shop cat and a junkyard dog, that would be fine by me. I hate to think what would happen to a cat on a leash sleeping on your drive shaft. Dogs are great friends, but a huge PITA. They need to be walked...and I don't have a teenager to take care off that anymore.

[Beagle]

My priorities seem backwards. A) make car move, B) worry about stop? Nah, let's jack with the brakes. The ABS light was on and the pedal was rock hard, so...

I pulled the two foot long, twenty pound beast of wires and metal that is state of the art anti-lock braking for 1989 and will replace it with a modern aluminum / plastic resorvoir 1" bore 4 wheel disc master cylinder. I also found a new '86 Mustang 2.3 power booster in the garage. I think I bought it for the Falcon wagon. I may try using it, but it's pretty small (diameter). Maybe it will have enough boost to feel right.

[Beagle]

JeffMcKC had a quote about paying attention to what the guys who have already done it do. I think it was on Bamfster's sig. I'd do well to consider that. I should also remember that anything with the name "Masters" in it really probably means "Bastards"

The much less expensive than Arnott's kit from StrutMasters is much less expensive for a reason. Arnott's uses somewhat engineered aluminum that locates the springs like you would expect to see. Strutmasters has some delrin biscuits and nothing to keep the front lower's positively centered.

You get what you pay for, right? Well, here's where I kick myself (I do this a lot). I go to pull the front bags, thinking they are fully deflated. Uh, no. Turns out those bags don't leak, it's the compressor who has gone WEAK and doesn't have the nuts to fill up the fronts any more. They take about twice what the rears do in terms of PSI. WHOOOSH - scared the crap out of me when I pulled the solenoid. New 150.00 compressor would have fixed this deal maybe.

The air springs are notably lighter than the coils going back in, so out of the 25 pounds I removed from the front, 18 or so of them are going back in the front and another 18 or so for the back. It'll probably be a wash by the time I get all the tubing and wiring and height sensor crap and control module and ABS wiring rats nest removed. At least the copper and aluminum should recover some of the cost. :)

Back to the biscuits, I need to run by Lowes and see if I can find some fender washers that will hold the bottom spring locator a little more firmly in place. I'll post pictures later, feel a bit under the weather nasty head cold and for that matter, just a little Bob Holmes like this morning.

I thought I would finish this up with a stupid and meaningless quote that I found funny and somehow fitting, maybe a gentle reminder to myself.

"When Karma comes back to punch you in the face, I want to be there. You know, in case it needs help."

[Beagle]

Ah, yeah, so about Karma and teasing Bob Holmes... brilliant.

The stock brake lines are 3 port, and the new M/C is two port. I'm thinking of a proportioning valve, line lock anyway, but wondering if anybody has specific recommendations on stuff they've used for a 3-2 conversion?

/edit - looks like this will do the prop valve:

http://wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderProd.aspx?itemno=260-11179
http://wilwood.com/Images/MasterCylinders/Master%20Cylinder%20Photos-Medium/260-11179-med.jpg

two in / three out. I'll worry about the line-loc later.

[Beagle]

Oh yeah, new 4x4 stance! I'm used to hearing "springs settle" but the desire to cut 2 coils off immediately is killing me. The back is about where I want, the front... errr...

98549855

I can't get far enough from the car to show how high the front is, but i's HIGH. I'm going to leave it alone for right now. I'll wait and see what the 460 does to it before cutting them. I also noticed the struts are just things to locate the lower control arm - they don't have anyting left. Guess I should save some for that too, or leave them and call them drag struts. :)

[racingsnake440]

The 460 should get rid of the 4x4 stance - get to it!

[TheSilverBuick]

A great day for cat kind.

[Bob Holmes]

OH REALLY!!!!

Now you did it.

[milner351]

the 460 c6 will fix those coils right quick.

I got nothin for ya on the brake dealio.

[BBR]

2 port mc + mustang prop valve maybe?

Pic of mine for reference:

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/59862_432599889484_687514484_4885876_2508692_n.jpg

[Beagle]

I thought I might need to look into a late model block because it's got 4 wheel discs. The Wilwood part is adjustable and 80.00 , may be the easy way out because I'm jacking with the weight on this car so bad? I read a ton of junk last week and supposedly the Mustang valves bias to the front left and this is supposed to provide even L<->R distribution.

How does yours feel? I'm leaving the 225 60 16's for the road but thinking half way about skinnies. I think the distribution is going to be similar to yours except iron heads unless Santa makes a really late delivery.

I think I'll start with the 1" bore and a manual setup and see how it does. If Monica can stop it, I'll be okay. If it's too much for her to handle, I'll stick a booster on it. I'll go back and look at Stiney's build, I think I remember him moving the pivot point on his pedal. It wouldn't be that hard to get a manual pedal from a Fox though. All the SVO stuff I was reading said 5:1 for 4 wheel disc manual worked well for them. This car will lose a lot of weight before it's all said and done, so I'm hoping that will work.

[Bob Holmes]

Sadly, the only distribution block that I know fits, is an SVO block. And I just gave my extra to the LeMons racing team.

[BBR]

Brakes feel ok for what they are --> Small discs and drums. Then again I'm not a heavy brake user and am considering ditching the booster.

[SuperBuickGuy]

Consider the larger equation.

All a proportioning valve does is reduce the amount of flow to the rear brakes. On the Skylark, I found that with the balancing valve and Camaro calipers that I am using, that there wasn't enough stopping power in the rears. I first put a Corvette master cylinder thinking the 50/50 pressure of that would work. It didn't. Then I found out that there's a pre-bias in the valve itself. It reduces the pressure 40% from the get-go. I removed the regulator, and with my driving style (I downshift), it works excellent. In my Chevrolet pickup, when I put the disk brakes on the rear, I left the disk/drum regulator alone. It works perfect (okay, it locks up on super slick - rear - but it did that before with drums).

My point is this:
Simply buying a regulator that's "supposed to work" in a car that's close may simply be spending money that isn't necessary. Start with the stock balancer. If the backs don't lock up, then remove the balancer. If the backs do lock up, look for a different proportioning valve that provides more pressure to the rears. Keep in mind that for a variety of reasons you may need more pressure in the back to get compentent stopping (a problem with the Camaro calipers that I later found out about).

Put another way. Your car has roughly a 60/40 front/rear weight. if you get it the balance 50/50, you might only need a 10% reduction to reduce wheel lock up, if any. Save your bucks - drive it with just replacing the brakes.

Oh yeah, one other thing. On my truck, I used longer lasting pads on the front, and cheaper pads on the back - thus mechanically reducing the rear's power by choice of brake pads....

[STINEY]

Here, I didn't want you do get all dusty digging up my project... trust me, its dusty... :)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/dv869/DSCF0394.jpg


Use lower pivot point in bracket, move pivot pin up 2" on arm (drill new hole, there is not one provided), welded old hole shut for strength (maybe not needed? Made me feel better.)
You can see the old hole, it is the one NOT painted.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/dv869/DSCF0393.jpg


I agree with SBG. Try it out, might be just right..... or just right with minimal tweaks.

I ditched the booster for space, plus I really, really like manual brakes. They just "feel" right to me, I like to feel the road.

You realize you will have to do this - - http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/dv869/DSCF0392-1.jpg
to do the manual pedal thing? Maybe you can weasel it out without all this work, but if not you might consider replacing the heater core while you are in there. It will be money well spent to NOT have to do this job twice.


BBR, was yours originally a GT? If so we have the same brakes then? My '86 title says LX/GT....... I never have bothered to figure out what that means exactly. Is it a LX or a GT, or were they actually both packages?

[BBR]

Up to 86 they all had the same brakes except of course for SVO's. '87 and up V8 cars had different spindles / bigger brakes. The 4 banger cars retained the 79-86 spindles and brakes.

[Russell]

I switched the pedals on my Capri with out taking the dash out, I don't know that I saved any time. I do think there is one nut/bolt that can not be reached.

[Beagle]

Awesome Stiney, thanks! On the prop. block - this was a Lincoln electronic ABS system. There is no block like with a regular booster/mc, so I'll have to pick one up either way. I'm leaning towards the Wilwood deal, I think it will give me what I need for the 2-3 port and adjustability. I'll post a pic of the holy shit nightmare 20 pound and 30 wire brake system tonight.

I'll look at it again, it didn't look as bad as I remember my Mustang or Cougar being under the dash. I may well have that out anyway for the 100.00 worth of copper in it! lol. This thing has more switches and wires and gadgety crap that I'd forgotten about to distinguish it as a Lincoln and not a Thunderbird. Example - it has switches for the opera lights in the back seat, and two cigarette lighters back there as well. There's a mountain of shit that adds up to the 30k in 1989 pricetag on this car and the 3850 curb weight. Mechanics dream I tell ya!

This turds one function will be DW this year. I don't plan on it needing a heater although it may get a/c. Tough to say. There's a big whole in the roof already, maybe I'll put a mister system in it for a/c. Haha. I'm thinking about the heater core for defroster, but it will definitely get housed differently. There's a guy on Lincoln Vs. Cadillac that did a though the heater box hack for the heater core, so I have an idea of where to cut it out from based on his templates. It looks doable. lol.

[Beagle]

quick update - I bought some bullet proof glass for the dash since I expect the speedometer to explode. Seriusly, I've never understood what happens when you pin a mechanical speedometer?

[TheSilverBuick]

My Skylark's speedo tops out at 80mph, and I've had that maxed out many times :ha: The cluster actually in my car still has the PRNDLL, and it goes all the way to R before it stops :ha:
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/172966_1771978812923_1042835976_31981508_6555699_o .jpg

[BBR]

quick update - I bought some bullet proof glass for the dash since I expect the speedometer to explode. Seriusly, I've never understood what happens when you pin a mechanical speedometer?


I don't either, but I do know what happens to Fox body speedometer cables if you let them get too close to a header tube. They turn to goo and the speedo stops working. DAMHIK.

[Mater]

hmm on my 82 Grand prix G-body it just spun around back to "10mph" not sure what the mustang speedo would do lol

and if you where seriuse about putting in a compressor i have all the lines, brackets, switch, and guage from when the merc had 4 corner air bags. no idea why it had them or when as it was never a factory option for a panther to have 4 corner and mine was not even a factory rear air bag car

i can remove all the stuff and you can have it been tring to figure out what to do with it

here is a pic of the guage and switch that was installed has a air line going to it and it goes to the trunk where there are brackets where a tank was and then they go tot he rear suspention and front suspention of the car.

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt161/01gpgt/100_2408.jpg

[Beagle]

Thanks Tom - it is Tom, right? Dang, I'm old. Sorry if I got that wrong. I think I'm gonna put my name in my signature. Lol. If I met you I'd prolly still call you 88Dippy and not mean it in a bad way. I forget names, it suuuccckkkkks. Anyway...

I appreciate the offer. I bought a replacement coil spring kit for it. I did the Stacy David toss shit out from under the hood into a pile bit, which I've always wanted to do but never did because I didn't want to tear up the junk I took out so I could sell it. This junk, well, it'll get scrapped so I yelled "Fore!" and let it fly without looking up. The compressor and bags are gone. I'm hunting down all the wires and controller, hoses, ride height sensors, etc. for disposal/recycling. I think the weight difference between the coil and bag setup is a wash by the time you remove everything. Removing the non-functional ABS is absolutely a weight loss move, probably 15-20 pounds all said and done.

[Mater]

yup it's Tom

no problem thought i would offer before i chucked the stuff. only part i will proably keep is the guage and switch


one think i like about the merc it's a ABS delete car. i also did a weight loss proagram on it as well. removed the clutch fan and installed a dual electric from a taurus. saved about 15lbs those viscus clutches are heavy

[Beagle]

Try the Lincoln Vs. Cadillac or Mark Vii / Viii sites or maybe call Arnott or one of the other air spring guys, they had a bounty on compressors for a while? I don't regret changing it but I am a bit pissed at myself for not diagnosing it first. Once I got it all out, it really is extremely simple.

I'll probably run an electric fan for packaging reasons first, weight and pit cooling second. I'm really on the fence about an electric water pump. BBR's still using the cast iron one, but I was thinking about selling my bowflex and just using the factory waterpump as a curling bar.

I'm getting very impatient about the license / inspection v. getting the 460 in it. I want to pull the 302 / aod and sell it. I have somebody who wants it, and the 400.00 for that would pay for the car. I'm starting to question the integrity of this turd too, the front end got crunched pretty hard at some point. As old as it is, the inspection here is a visual / dyno test. I am tempted to see if the 460 will pass. The kids doing inspections weren't born in 1989, so I don't know if they'll even recognize it as a BBF. Maybe I'll paint it grey instead of blue and try it.

[Mater]

for a car i drive a lot i do not think i would ever use an electric pump just becuase of reliability. the power loss is what 5hp? 8hp? between an electric pump and the stock one. for weight do they make an aluminum aftermarket pump? not sure on the 460s

the merc only has 240hp with the pi engine so i figured any little bit helps witht eh removalve of the clutch fan lol really shows how far back ford installed the 4.6 there is foot and half room between the water pump pulley and the electric fans

[milner351]

Not that we traditionally build for fuel economy - but loosing the parasitic loss of an engine driven fan can have in impact on fuel economy especially of larger engines with big heavy clutch fans.

The clutch fan on the 7.3 diesels pulled double digit HP - some claim 25HP when the clutch was fully engaged.

If nothing else, loosing a big heavy clutch fan reduces wear on the water pump bearings, and reduces noise.

Typically fans are set up for the worst case scenario for cooling, that most of us would rarely if ever see (when was the last time you pullled max GVW up davis dam or through death valley?)

[BBR]

Aluminum water pumps are certainly available for 460's. I needed the 68-69 specific short pump and they are not available in aluminum, so cast iron was the only choice.

[Beagle]

I'm so freaking torn right now. Lincoln v. 90 LX Fox notch.

I pulled the seats out of the LSC and I think they are about 75 pounds apiece. I am thinking about putting the Tbird seats in it, should be about a 70 pound savings between the two of them and still be reclinable.

On the waterpump, I will probably go procomp aluminum and a taurus electric fan motor cog drive stolen from a battery powered scooter.

[BBR]

Chain driven water pump FTW!

Is the 90 usable as is? If so, it's plan B.

Repeat to yourself: The Lincoln is plan A. The Lincoln is plan A. The Lincoln is plan A. The Lincoln is plan A. The Lincoln is plan A.

[Mater]

Not that we traditionally build for fuel economy - but loosing the parasitic loss of an engine driven fan can have in impact on fuel economy especially of larger engines with big heavy clutch fans.

The clutch fan on the 7.3 diesels pulled double digit HP - some claim 25HP when the clutch was fully engaged.

If nothing else, loosing a big heavy clutch fan reduces wear on the water pump bearings, and reduces noise.

Typically fans are set up for the worst case scenario for cooling, that most of us would rarely if ever see (when was the last time you pullled max GVW up davis dam or through death valley?)

in the panther and f150 boards for the 4.6 they say 15-20hp can be freed up by just ditching the fan. i can also use the aux A/C fan as a main fan it pulls enough CFM

[Beagle]

Plan A's seats, for real... weighed in at 72 pounds each. I'm loving this car, I may buy one to drive. They've managed to put 600 pounds on top of the fattest foxes of all time. I have pictures of my precious. She whined and said no posting without prior approval. Instead, I'll post what everyone should find in any old man car... the tube of Fixodent lost under the seat!

10339

Plan A is the Cat's-ass-trophy.

[Beagle]

HA! She went to bed. Trust me not to post. :) This is Precious working on removing trim - she took most of the console out too. I love this girl!!

10340

She's kinda shy, 'cept the part where she'll kick my ass if she sees this. I think I can fit the carpet in one of those laundramat machines? There are apartments not too far away. I may check that out. I can use some of the now 4.00 plus in retrieved change to wash it... making the carpet cleaning... a wash. (groan)

[TheSilverBuick]

FTW!

[Mater]

if you lived here i could wash them at my dads work.

he works at a hotel and emplyees use the giant industial machines all the time lol

[SuperBuickGuy]

fastest, easiest way to get carpet clean - use any of the carpet cleaning sprays (like resolve), spray them generously, let them sit in the coin op car wash.... then blast the tar out of them.... I did that with my 93 Chevrolet pickup - the carpets came out looking like new. Most manfacturers (maybe all, haven't done the legwork) made the carpet so it could get soaking wet, using pressure on them with carpet cleaning agents will get them sparkly clean... bonus you live in Texas where you have more than 1 consecutive hour of sunshine and don't have to simultaneously use moss killer on the carpet (joking on the moss killer)

[Beagle]

this is me approaching the car in typical ass backwards fashion... who cares about the carpet! lol. I figured since the seats were out, I'd consider cleaning the five pounds of crap out of it. Monica, on the other had, seems encouraged that I at least seem to care what the car looks like. I think she is just being very smart and playing naive. She's smarter than I am, but I don't care. She was working on the car and we were like peas and carrots!

In other news, I located the long lost other d3ve-a2a head in the garage. It was cleverly hiding in - of all places - the parts cleaner! Sneaky bostich.

Is polising a combustion chamber worth the time?

[milner351]

polishing the combustion chamber would be the least of my worries with DW12 on the calendar.

I second the power washing of the carpet - works really well on seat belts too (although I'm not sure it helps keep them safe it does get them clean)

Sun drying such items after a wash is a great thing... you're in TX after all.

I'm actually putting Mark8 seats into a light car.... oh well.

[BBR]

I wouldn't bother polishing the chamber in a D3 head. If I were itching to grind on something, I would at least follow Scotty's guide to porting the exhaust a bit. http://reincarnation-automotive.com/

[Beagle]

the ports are pretty much as done as I'm gonna get them, they've been "touched". I'm expecting 150-160 on the exhaust with any luck. I bought into Scotty's deal years ago, maybe they'll finally get to see vacuum pump driven air. :)

Carpet? f* that noise. I'll take the noise! This sucker has to date, 72 pound seats, 9 pounds a door worth of switches and copper... windows are up, guess I'll figure that one out later. I'm completely impressed by the sound deadening rubber crap attached to the back of the 30 pound carpet. It's not like a car, it's a Lincoln! Seriously understanding the 30k in 1989 all of the sudden. Brown astro-turf going back in, to hell with it. It's supposed to be a hotrod, not a luxury liner.

The seats from this barge were destroyed by Texas sun, I'd put them in something, they have lumbar and side bolster power driven. Very nice seats but not for something going on a diet... and the five-ten bills to get them redone in leather is definitely not in the budget.

About 30 wires each side heading towards the trunk, and one pissed off Precious since she found out I posted pics. Bumming on that one. Worse yet, she's hungry, worked her butt off tonight, and won't tell me what she wants to eat. Greeeeaaat. It's like I missed her birthday grouchy, and no clue what to do about it. Damn if it aint like a car that won't start for no reason. Well, no reason for me to hang out here when there are dollars in copper waiting to be removed. Pictures (not of Precious) maybe by 11. :)

[Beagle]

Precious is good. Turns out it wasn't me, the pics, or the damn car. Yay!

You guys got any wiring diagrams for womenz? Dang. :)

[SuperBuickGuy]

women are persnickity enough that when you do figure out their wiring harness, they change the schematic

I did know a guy, once, who said he'd figured out women, but his other occupation was axe murderer so I never did ask what he'd figured out.

[milner351]

There's no schematic, diagram, manual, or troubleshooting guide.... only patience.

[Beagle]

yeah, I'm figuring that out. First wife, I didn't have any. Last wife, I didn't have a lot. Precious I tend to leave alone until she tells me if I'm too stooopid to figure it out. She'll tell me later maybe. :)

Quote of the day.... "You sure it doesn't need those wires? I mean, you want brake lights right?"
Dumbass answer of the day "If I can wire a trailer to have blinkers, stop lights, and running lights with four wires, I'm sure I can figure this out."

I may have enough in copper to buy a painless universal kit... lol. I don't think the Apollo landing modules had this much wire! There are about a dozen computer gadget switches in the upper console, no kidding about 30 wires down each side, the air lines for the bags... the car has opera lights and cigarette lighters for both passengers in the back seat, the JBL amp back there, the controller for the air ride, the fuel pump, and a bunch of relays I guess. I'm not sure where the ABS module is but it's probably back there too.

The carpet was truly impressive. Not the jute backed stuff, but a rubberized outdoor coating with a bunch of sound deadener and foam backing in strategic locations. It weighs a ton. It won't be going back in.

Second quote of the day "Yeah, but you don't want your feet to fry!"

I smiled at that one. Clever girl. :)

[milner351]

The rebelwire kit I have for the falcon was only $240 - and they have less expensive options...

[TheSilverBuick]

Oh they have a wiring diagram, only all the wires are red, and there are LOTS of wires.

[BBR]

Lucas wiring ain't got nothing on women.

[SuperBuickGuy]

There's no schematic, diagram, manual, or troubleshooting guide.... only patience.

there is a saying "having the patience of Job" however, even Job lost his patience with his wife... and heaven knows, I do not have the patience of Job.

[SuperBuickGuy]

Lucas wiring ain't got nothing on women.

but they do make smoke come out of the ears of guys :)

[Bob Holmes]

I want to say something...but I probably shouldn't.

Whew and with that pause I've already forgot.

---------------------

I'm seriously interested interested in the "canbus" systems out that eliminate most of the wiring. I need to figure it out.

[SuperBuickGuy]

I want to say something...but I probably shouldn't.

Whew and with that pause I've already forgot.

---------------------

I'm seriously interested interested in the "canbus" systems out that eliminate most of the wiring. I need to figure it out.

chicken

But I think you've misspelled the word - it's cannabis - makes you forget all sorts of things.

[Beagle]

Spent a night away from the garage. They tell stories, they are jealous of the damn cars... or ... and this is the much more plausible answer, I'm an idiot. Whatever it was, it's in the past. She doesn't show the normal tendency to remember the year/day/hour/minute and what you were wearing and exactly what you said the last time you pissed her off.

Bob, I read very limited stuff on CanBus, and it looks to me a lot like Ethernet. The sensors/devices will send/receive information over a pair of wires, have a communication protocol, and collision detection (if two devices send at the same time for example). If you're curious about what I suspect they are using for collision detection, do a querry on CSMA/CD and you can bury yourself in it. I've forgotten pretty much everything I ever knew because I accepted it as modern magic and moved up from the physical to the application end of it. The trick is some huge number is given so that every device will have a unique address. Each device will have it's own unique address so that despite several devices living on the same backbone, they'll know what packets of data were intended for them. There are types broadcast messages that all of the devices will receive, but I digress.

The amount of data any modern device is capable of processing is staggering, seeing 10 network transactions conducted in a millisecond is pretty common. The beauty of this is in a car is you can put a hub/switch in a central location, then use two wires from that hub to wherever your CPU is. You can have multiple hubs/switches located in a convenient place, like in the trunk in my case, and mulitple devices connected to that hub. Now, instead of 60+ wires of varying gauge running the whole car length, you can have one power cable and one twisted pair cable make the long run to wherever the power source / processor is.

It's a hell of an idea, and will make troubleshooting a breeze... right up to the point where somebody puts a big unshieldedelectric electrical noisemaker (Fan is a good example) on top of the network wire and it causes so much interference the network connection goes down.

One of my favorite stories from "back when" was the Lantastic / Windows For Workgroups type setups with coax, t's and terminators for a true "peer to peer" 2 node network. A guy called me with a problem, every day when his neighbor turned on his computer, the network would go down. We chatted casually about the guys habits because I had a feeling, and yes, the guy did turn on his light when he came in. A nice bright Flourescent one, just like in my cube of the time. :) You see where this is going? Yep, the wire was tossed over the cube wall and it was laying on top of the ballast in the light.

Anyway, the historical hard wiring of every circut back to mama is part of the reason why I'm yanking it all and starting over. There is a gold mine in copper in this car, and it only needs four wires! Okay, eight. It has to have a stereo, or Precious will be pissed off again. :)

[Beagle]

Ah, the other lovely part of digital is lighting and relay switching...LED's were made for this!

[Beagle]

Weighed the carpet - it's not 30 pounds, it's 41! Definitely not going back in.

Precious is questioning me a lot about ripping out the mound of wires, so we got slowed up a bit while I drew pictures for her and said things that were probably wrong. ooops. We talked about circuits, switches, how light bulbs work, how I understand how this works for the most part, but have no idea how the 5,000 red wires in a woman work. Why 5000 red wires were frustrating, how cars are like girls, and rather than trying to figure out 5,000 unknown wires, I was gonna take them all out, and hopefully have enough coin from the copper to pay for the new harness... and not to worry cuz i liked all her confusing wires, but I wasn't gonna put up with that crap from the car.

you know.. the kind of stuff that can get your pillow tossed out into the garage if they are in a bad mood. Dicey choice, but she smiled and made me supper and I woke up so it's wasn't poisoned. :) I got a clue as to what was making her edgey, should be good to go back to working on the cat-turd today. Oh - for the record, her pet name is Snookie Wookums, but I'm too lazy to type that every time. It takes a real man to text that to his SO!

ahh, yeah, the trunk latch motor junk is 3 pounds according to Precious, who says "How are you gonna keep the trunk closed?"

Deck screw. Gawd, I wish I'd have gotten a picture of the reaction to that! I'm betting the normal latch stuff from my Thunderbird will bolt in.

Does this thread being on it's 13th page on Friday the thirteenth mean anything for the black cat flattener? Standing by to find out for sure.

I'm out to pull the 302/AOD, I need some capital. I'm torn on selling the aluminum and copper yet, I think Copper in particular is gonna be something I want to have a lot of when the zombi-pocalypse comes. I continue to be amazed at the amount of gadget-crap in this car, but even more so, how absolutely clean all the metal is. If the front end hadn't been crunched at one time, I would have considered fixing it's "issues" and driving that bitch!

[milner351]

While you're tearing out the metric tons of copper - remember to leave the pigtails for all the important stuff.... I hope I took that advice everywhere I needed to on the Falcon.

You are pretty funny with all your girl / car talk - there's more than one reason guys have named boats and cars girls names for years -they absorb time and money in similar ways - and we have unexplicable attraction to them similarly as well.

Are you going to need to do any surgery to the engine compartment of old abe to get the big engine in there? I know other guys have done it and I honestly can't recall what was required to do so.

[TheSilverBuick]

how I understand how this works for the most part, but have no idea how the 5,000 red wires in a woman work. Why 5000 red wires were frustrating, how cars are like girls, and rather than trying to figure out 5,000 unknown wires,

Ha! I knew it, all red wires!

[Beagle]

Dad told me a long time ago if it has wheels, floats, flies, or has boobs, you'll end up money ahead to rent it... but I plan to keep this one. :)

It should go in without a ton of drama, I want it to run then I'll worry about faster. I've got car manifolds that one of the guys on the 460 boards and used to be on here a lot said he has used several times. AlMac? I think that's it.. Allen Mackin I think. I haven't seen him here in a while. Anway, he's got 3 or 4 BBF T-birds so I'll take his word for it. The 600.00 hooker headers don't have many good reviews. I had given some thought to the Crites stuff, but not enough to write a check.

A Fox Mustang, you can lift the hood straight up and don't have to take it off. This kitty has to have the hood removed. It's gonna rain today... what're the odds the down pour starts when it's just off the mounts?

John - yeah, I keep all the connectors. Weatherpack connectors or whatever they call them are cool as hell, this thing is full of 2/3/4 wire ones. I may seriously keep the copper. I have room for this sort of crap, and doubt that I'll regret having it when I'm older. I've been interested in forges for a while. When I get off the clock permanently, I'll want to have it.

[Bob Holmes]

My brother said it well "buy your assets, rent your fun."

My rendition is more profane.

[STINEY]

Does this thread being on it's 13th page on Friday the thirteenth mean anything for the black cat flattener?

:shocked: :dunno: :popcorn:

This may just be the beginning......... I'm keeping a sharp eye on this thread, should prove even more entertaining than it already is!

[SuperBuickGuy]

:shitfan::copcar::flame::smash::popcorn:

[Beagle]

feels kinda like that at the moment ... there's a harness that starts at the driver side firewall, grows to the size of a adolescent rattle snake, weaves it's way under and through the front end, then winds up on the driver side firewall, presumably heading to the ECM.

My first guess was 10 pounds. 1/2 of it is 20 pounds. I got ... bitchy, I'll admit it... trying to get it out of the front end. This car has been crashed so the front end stuff isn't exactly where it should be all the time. Okay, no problem. Carbide bit on the grinder = cutoff wheel. Amazingly good at it too. Cut the a/c out at the same time. Noisy, effective.

So the bitch kitty scores first blood and I just yanked it's spinal column / CNS out. How much is copper these days? I have 35 pounds of it just from the headlight/abs/starter harnesses. F* U kitteh. I'll have your heart next.

/edit - to explain the first blood - I'm paper toweled over the fingers at the moment, which is why I'm in here. The sheet metal and I had a disagreement right before I went primal.

[racingsnake440]

I remember pulling one of those harnesses out of an LSC - ended up cutting the car up to get it out in one piece, they're huge!

With everything you're pulling out of this one it might be lighter than a stocker even with the 460

[Beagle]

I remember pulling one of those harnesses out of an LSC - ended up cutting the car up to get it out in one piece, they're huge!

With everything you're pulling out of this one it might be lighter than a stocker even with the 460

That's the dream! I'm keeping track of junk, I'm actually trying to get it to lose about 400 pounds. It might make it. There is insane extra weight in this car, they say like 3850 pounds. I want it down to 3600 with me in it. Monica says "yeah, it'll probably make it if you stop drinking beer, eating bread and cheese, and fried foods.

Life without cold beer, cheese sammiches, and chicken wings? EFF THAT!

The heater core engine side extraction through the fan box is next. :) I thought there might be about 50 pounds of copper in this thing and I think I missed it by about half.

[BBR]

I don't believe any of it until I see pics. :)

[Beagle]

http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp220/DFA_Beagle/?action=view&current=101_0064.jpg red x?

hmm...
http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp220/DFA_Beagle/?action=view&current=101_0065.jpg

http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp220/DFA_Beagle/101_0065a.jpg

hmmmmm.

[milner351]

Epic weight removal continues - sometimes - you've got to show a car who's boss, especially after it bites you. Hope those sheetmetal cuts heal quick.

[Beagle]

Question - maybe for myself... Cylinder heads and camshafts and bears. Oh my.

D3ve, 8.8:1 , mildish port job. Bowl blended, mostly exhaust short turn work (where they respond according to "them") and flat tappet hydraulic 214*/224* cam (20.00, new) , this is the dirt bag approach, cheap and paid for.

D0ve, 10.4:1 , needs porting, roller solid 236/242* cam (1000.00 new but that is springs, retainers, timing chain, lifters, cam) ... probably worth another 75 or more HP.

I'm having a tough time with the justification but I don't think it will hit my target with the D3ve's. The D0ve's at over 10:1 with a mildish cam would want E85 probably. What to do ... what to do. Pay the electric, buy the missus a lovely present for her special birthday, give her a roller cam? Maybe she won't hit me with it.

I've got a conversation going with a guy on 460ford.com for a Torker II. It's the lowest intake I can think of and the guys there seem to like it. I had bought a Torker which is deemed poop by the same guys, did that before I had a clear plan. I'm thinking I want to move the torque curve up a few hundred to a thousand RPM. I've been running it through a simulator and wallace racing ET predict-o-rator and I can't see it getting where I want it with the small cam / low compression setup. It's making me insane. I spent a lot of time on the stocker heads, I'm actually very curious to see how well they do (or not.)

The D0ve's are better exhaust, smaller chamber, 300+ cfm as cast intake but the compression is pushing it. If I have to go with E85 it's gonna make fueling a real PITA depending on what Freiburger comes up with for a route. Also, if I go with e85, the compression is actually kinda low in my mind. The sim software says about 200 cranking psi, really hairy edge for pump gas and a 30 year old combustion chamber design. It will have about .040 - .045 quench (zero deck, .041 gasket) and I'm tempted to go this way with 93 octane and see how much timing I have to pull. I have a lot of hours in the D3ve's though. Dangit!

Open to suggestions...

/more edit - according to the numbers, this cat-ass-trophy is going to be a little buzzy on the road... like 2800 at 70 buzzy so I'm not all that worried about it pinging on the highway. Octane booster and go? The other thing about the D0ve's is they are easy to convert to stud mount rockers and I have some comp roller tip rockers if I go that way. The D3ve / cam combo probably doesn't need to be converted.

/even more edit - there's an HX55 clone on the shelf here. Largish sized turbocharger. The 8.8:1 D3ve's would be easy to get a few more cc's out of the chamber and get it down closer to 8:1 , intercool the turbo, EFI... this is why my sh*t never gets finished. I'm having wicked deja vu right now, I'm pretty sure I've posted this before. Losing it.

[milner351]

Remember - you can make changes later, and unexpected expenses will come up, there's still a lot of building to do, and the clock is ticking.

KISS.

Mill the D3 a little to get some more compression? If you really hate the cam after the car is running and driving, you can change it.

For that matter - if you score a great deal on a set of DOVE or aluminum heads at some point in the future - you can swap them on then... AFTER the car is running, driving, and baselined.

[racingsnake440]

D3VEs and the turbo if you get time, N20 if you don't!

[Beagle]

Remember - you can make changes later, and unexpected expenses will come up, there's still a lot of building to do, and the clock is ticking.

KISS.

Mill the D3 a little to get some more compression? If you really hate the cam after the car is running and driving, you can change it.

For that matter - if you score a great deal on a set of DOVE or aluminum heads at some point in the future - you can swap them on then... AFTER the car is running, driving, and baselined.

I have a set of D0ve's (125.00 CL deal) sitting on the shelf. The D3ve's have enough work in them to be better than the D0ve's are right now. I am not all that fond of grinding iron, and they would need some work. Whine=off, you're right. I'll put it together with the pump gas setup.

The NAWSSSS idea has crossed my mind. It has forged pistons and h-beams. :)

I have a feeler out on a set of Hooker headers (300.00) that may or may not be sold already. Milner, you're on the money about time.

[BBR]

Why not D0VE's with a nice hyd ft cam like:

Lunati 31605
110lsa 295/305 0.615/0.622 245/255 @50

or

FRPP M-6250-C460
112lsa (?) 310/320 0.588/0.614 244/254 @50

If I didn't already have a solid roller in mine, I would use something else. The roller lifters are my only worry.

10:1 is too low for E85 IMO

[Bob Holmes]

Stay on task, padawan.

Get it in the car and running. You're going to find all kinds of things that you want to upgrade as time goes on. First step, get it in the car and running.

[BBR]

http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp220/DFA_Beagle/?action=view&current=101_0064.jpg red x?

hmm...

http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp220/DFA_Beagle/101_0065a.jpg

hmmmmm.

This looks like somebody dismembered Robby the Robot

[Beagle]

Have a nibble on the 135.00 Torker ii (fits under hood) and just finished a 300.00 Hooker deal (headers, ya filthy buggers) from San Antonio. Unlike the Secret Service, I won't bitch about the 47.00 shipping.

For those of you familiar with "Major League" ... It's starting to come together!

I will go with the D3's and get it to run. Thanks guys!

[Beagle]

I get amused, maybe more like enthused... Enthusiasts. I had a very nice phone conversation with a gentleman from 460ford.com on an item I think fits the D3ve / 8.8:1 / 214* cam deal. Edelbrok Torker ii, 135.00... one thing we all seem to have in common? What are you building!? I announced this thing as a truck motor (it is) and seller agreed it would be a good truck motor. Big f* grin. I love truck motors. I told him what / why I was on his phone (DW / low buck challenged). I didn't ask about his cam, but:

He's going Mafia intake, 521", TFS heads. << envious. 550-600 is and probably then some.

Back at the ranch, I'm thinking ..the Torker might fit under the hood. I'm kinda excited about that. He had a Comp 305 cam for sale as well, but I didn't ask. It might have worked for the D0ve's, but I'm guessing I'll be better off with the 195 ish projected cranking psi for the truck mill , 3.27's and a very flexible tire size (huge wheel wells). I think 30's will fit in the well, nice OD tire size between tracks. Verification to happen on that, soon.

I spent a little money this week. 300 hooker headers, 135 manifold. I wanted to build the headers, but this time, a 2" header is better than manifolds, even if it is too big.

I tried something stealthy tonight. Polished the crap out of one head light, and it made a pretty noticeable difference. It's a feeble attempt to interest Monica. We'll see if it works. Polishing a turd? If I can find cambot, I'll get a pic.

James - why would you sweat mechanical rollers?

[Beagle]

Running math, always changes.

400 car
400 460 /c6
270 (267, and shipping, do we count shipping?) Springs to replace air bags
160 oil pan / pickup
20 cam
35 lifters
300 headers
110 3310 Vacuum 750 refuge (looks new)
60 gaskets , top end ... so far
135 intake
200 ross pistons
440 h-beams <-that is kinda jacked, more than the engine!
brakes, steering... another 200.00 or so. The fat kitty killer is within budget. I can sell the aod/5.0 for what I paid for the car, and wondering about that disc rear vs. a Musang 8.8 in trade plus a couple hundred. I guess I could say I sold the engine/trans but I'm using it for something else, so no change on the budget.
125 roller tip rockers and need to be tested springs 987 comp I'm told (110/300 ish closed and open)

the springs will be interesting. I really need to start setting up the valve job / heads. Do you guys have a source for truck duty valves?

[BBR]

http://sivalves.com/

Because solid roller lifters have a habit of coming apart at inopportune times, (like there ever is an opportune time for a lifter failure), are expensive, noisy and probably don't offer any real performance advantage for 90% of the driving most people do. If I ever lose a lifter, I'm sticking a hyd FT back in it like the Lunati 31605 or the FRPP C460 (if I can find one). Just one thing less to worry about.

[Bob Holmes]

The compression on that motor just sucks, either turbo it, or shave the heads.

I know, I said just get it done. Must be the meds talking.

[BBR]

That's why I said the D0VE's. That and they are dang near already set up for stud rockers.

I wouldn't assume it will be anywhere near zero deck either unless you measure everything and have the block decked. I'd run a fat HG and let it eat with a bigger flat tappet hyd cam and premium gas. Maybe monkey with cam timing to get the cranking pressure where you want it.

[milner351]

Is there a thin head gasket that's practical? I looked into that on the 302 - they required oringed head or block, if I'm going to pay for that machining - might as well shave em and run a regular gasket.

[BBR]

Copper is about the only choice for thinner and they suck for a street car. Watched a thread about a guy trying to use one a while back. It was chock full o fail.

Also remember some gaskets have a full 4.500" bore and that will lower your static CR a bit.

[Beagle]

It is getting decked to zero, about a .015 cut. I haven't mocked them all up yet, I'm trying to get a .040 - .045 quench. I did the math at 4.500" gasket and .041 compressed height. 8.8:1 with a 214* intake cam on a 112 center, sim software predicts about 177 cranking PSI with 4* advance on the cam. That's with 96cc chambers, but I'm thinking about milling them down to 92cc and it's just at 9.05:1.

I know it's a truck motor, but all the parts are here. The 337.50 chiang wao (pronounced Sham Wow) turbo is here as well... if I get it running okay, I may look into that. If I kept it under 8 psi, it might be okay without an after cooler and I'm pretty sure with a .75 kg/s capable hairdryer it would get kicked off the track and start breaking expensive things. That would also force an EFI plan, which is planned but not in this time frame.

I think it will be okay for what it is. It should be mildly entertaining. I'm hoping for 375-400 hp. I spent a bit of time talking sweetly to the ports. I like the idea of getting it to move itself first. No derailling me after pointing me in the right direction! lol. At 3600 pounds with driver (we both get a big diet) Wallace Racing says 11.99. Pipe dream for sure, but I think I will stay focused on hearing it run with only 138 days left.

The D3ve's intake ports are supposed to go 300-320 or so with any kind of attention, and if I followed the instructions right, the exhausts will go 160-180. I found a couple of dealers for the Si back cut valves, and I'm considering the 2.25 intake / 1.75 exhaust. The bowls won't need much to get the ratio right with those. They're possibly too big already for the 2.08 / 1.65 valves.

The combination should make a decent puller from idle to about 5000 I'm guessing. I'm hoping the torque and the 3.27's work together. I have been getting a lot of weight out of the car, it could just work. :)

The C6 is another story. I'm not saying exactly what Plan B is there, but it involves a man pedal. It would be a push , converter for the C6 v. bellhousing and flywheel and refugee transmission.

In other news, a new Ebay 160.00 Flaming River manual rack was scored today. Four glorious turns lock to lock! I'm actually excited about that. Grin.

[SuperBuickGuy]

manual rack under a 460? man, are you crazy? (don't answer that) :)

[Beagle]

it's not that heavy. I put the block on the engine stand without a hoist. (okay, barely)

Think of a 302 EFI, smog everywhere, a/c, p/s, air pump, antique abs/built in ps powered booster, anti lock stuff, miles of copper, solenoids and hoozits and whatsits filling up the entire engine bay, return system fuel lines, egr and air pump plumbing to the heads. So much emissions crap they had to hide some of it under the fender.

Now, think of a one wire alternatored, aluminum intaked, aluminum water pump, plastic electric fan, 4bbl'd 460 with tube headers.

FWIW, I've pulled over 7 pounds of iron from EACH head. They are the heavy part. The 460 was supposedly 720 pounds dressed, and I can promise there's over 50 pounds savings between the water pump and the intake. Trans weight, AOD v. c6 has got to be close. If plan B works out, figure 20+ pounds savings.

Skinnies instead of 225 60 16's on heavy oem wheels. A 205/70x15 is about an inch narrower, just the tires are 5 pounds a tire lighter. It's already sitting so high I will probably have to cut the springs. I'm pretty sure I can get it down to around 3400, the goal is 3600 with me in it. I drove a '68 F100 with zero power accessories for a while, they are fine once they are rolling and I hope to not have to do any parallel parking.

Four turns lock to lock v. 2.5. It's a truck rack for a truck engine in a fat fox. I'll put a 17" steering wheel on it too (weight savings over air bag 15" wheel, sell Mustang sized air bag). It'll be fine. It's the brakes I'm worried about. lol. All part of the me and car dieting together thing... and it won't be getting auto-x'd. haha.

[milner351]

Is it worth the money to put new valves in those heads? with the cam you're running - won't the stock valves be fine? that's a lot of machine work $

[BBR]

manual rack under a 460? man, are you crazy? (don't answer that) :)

No sweat. My car has a manual rack and it is easy to drive. Not 1 finger easy, but it's not an issue for me.

Oh and I ordered directly from sivalves when I bought mine.

[STINEY]

James how many turns lock-to-lock is your rack?

I have the power rack bypassing the pump in the Cadistang, its a little heavy to turn sitting still, but I don't exactly have skinnies on it either. I'll have to compare turns to Beags racks....

[milner351]

Increase the front tire pressure to the max on the side wall - see if that helps.

[BBR]

Man I don't know. Can't imagine that it is 4 though.


There's some Dove C's on 460Ford.com ready to run for $200!

http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159253

[Mater]

interested what you end up doing with the trans. when the 4.6 dies int he merc i plan on either swapping in the 460 my uncle uses as a door stop or a 302 from a 2000 explorer that has been rotting in his yard for the past 2 years

[Beagle]

Ready to Port maybe... ready to go? Not any more than the set I have. :) That's my whole complaint. I don't want to port any more iron heads this year. The D3's are pretty much done already. 9:1 with crappy 70's chamber iron heads and an RV cam is okay with me. I will look at the D0ve's later. The turbo would be less work than the amount of time I have in the heads already (sadly...).

I have the machining somewhat covered. NeWay cutters should work fine here. I have 4 or 5 angles for them. It's not a daily so I'm not worried about the seats sinking. In fact, I'm counting on it having already happened to some degree. Bigger valve makes recovering from that easier.

Turn? All it needs to do is go in a straight line!!

You guys will laugh at me about the transmission. I hesitate to tell you. Oh well... Toploader, 3 Speed. Big block input shaft, small block wide ratio gears. Free. I'd love to have a TKO or a viper spec t56, but I don't see it happening. I have considered a GV for the toploader though.

Supposedly, the trans will put up with 400+ HP. I'm not sure what the torque rating is. I think I will put drag radials on and not run slicks, so that should help.

[Beagle]

Is it worth the money to put new valves in those heads? with the cam you're running - won't the stock valves be fine? that's a lot of machine work $

BBF has a 1.73 rocker arm-> .511 intake , .537 exhaust on this cam. It won't hurt it to have bigger valves. D0ve-C's use the same valves as D3's, it's the CJ's that use the 2.25/1.75 (D0oer)

[STINEY]

You guys will laugh at me about the transmission. I hesitate to tell you. Oh well... Toploader, 3 Speed.

No laughter here. I helped a friend stuff one with a built 351 in a Fox mustang back in 1987ish........that trans took WAY more abuse than the chassis was capable of handling. In fact, that trans went thru the fox body and a mustang II body that I know of, and it was way used when we got it. I'm sure its probably still running around these parts in something or other.

The tunnel was subjected to a fair amount of hackery, but not too badly. We boxed it in with sheet metal and bent the shifter to line back up with the console...worked out well.

Can't wait for pictures of how you finagle it in there! If you have enough power you don't need all those extra gears....

[TheSilverBuick]

Supposedly, the trans will put up with 400+ HP. I'm not sure what the torque rating is. I think I will put drag radials on and not run slicks, so that should help.

Aren't the drag radials going to be as bad as slicks? Afterall they are designed to hook up with the track.

[Beagle]

I guess we'll find out? The guys I knew "back when" 60ft'd better on slicks. Things have probably changed. Everything else has. :) It's got room for 325-50x15's I think. There's a 295-55x16 MT which is like a 28x12.50, may be too much. It's got a bit of wheel well. I'm considering running it on the DR's and not worrying about a trailer. The other side says take a trailer, 28" or 26" and something about 10.5 or 9.5 wide in a slick, carry a spare trans... I found another for 200.00 with the 200 Inliner attached (always wanted a 7k rpm 7 main bearing six cylinder). That's down the road.

I need about a 30" tire on it to keep it from singing on the highway with no O/D. I have a pair of 275/60x17's from the Lightning, they're about 30". Decent shape, I'd run them. I can find Mustang 17" rims cheap enough, this is a 5x4.75 pattern, I may borrow some rims for a temp solution.

Then again, I'm thinking about putting a 5000 btu window unit A/C in the trailer and a generator, then running the A/C on the road trips if it's too hot. I'm a wiener and there doesn't seem to be anything against that. I know, it's not "spirit" of drag week, but neither is a stroke. September is a crapshoot down here.

Taking this junk out in one piece is kind of a pain. I hope the buyer appreciates it. I'm back on the sell it program for the AOD/5.0 ...

[BBR]

It's 5 on 4.5!!!!!! Not a chevy pattern!!!

[Beagle]

It's 5 on 4.5!!!!!! Not a chevy pattern!!! oooops! Thanks!

Drunk typing... thankfully I wasn't working on anything at the time. I'll borrow a pair of 17's off my Mustang is what I was trying to say. I think the MN12 stuff was a 4.25 bolt circle and I was thinking these were a .250 bigger bolt circle. Maybe that's what I was thinking. Who knows... but yeah, I know that. lol.

I'm guessing I should grab one of the L's tires and see if it will fit in the wheel well. Even at 30" this thing will be turning 3000 RPM at 75. Ouch. I'll definitely be one of the slow guys on the road, I can't see more than 200 miles between fillups. Still, for 3 grand, I can buy a LOT of gas.

I know I shouldn't be doing math, but at 5.00 a gallon, if it was 25% better mileage, it would take 25,000 miles to pay for an o/d @ 3000.00

8 mpg v. 10 , and 25% is fairly generous.

[Beagle]

Driver lost 7 pounds last week. Maybe in blood... stooopid body bolts. I don't remember my Fox Mustang having a big brace between the trans/engine that runs from one side of the k-member to the other. Do you guys know if that's typical? Looks like the kind of thing they would do on a 'vert to try to tighten the car up. I can't really get a good pic, I took it off and nothing appeared to be under a load. I guess I'll put it back later, just wondering about it.

It's been trying to rain all morning, I'm hesitant to crawl under grease-pit-kitty-killer. Man, I sure would like a rotisserie about now. The trans has been leaking for some time, as has the rack. There's oily nasty sand everywhere. Everytime I touch it, the junk heads right for my eyes. You'd think after 40 years of working on crap I'd get the hint to wear safety glasses... or even the mechanics gloves laying on my workbench.

I found some 16" pony wheels from a '99 Mustang for 100.00 / four. They look a ton lighter, I'm tossing around the idea at the moment. Soft 8's with crome trim rings might look appropriately redneck as well. One of the turbines on the car has some gouges in it, maybe they can fix that for cheap. Item 794 on my "running around in the back of my head" list.

[Bob Holmes]

That is a brace to stiffen up the cowl/k-member. I don't recall them coming stock, but who knows?

Roll that dude out, put it on jackstands and hit it with a pressure washer. I hate working on that gritty, oily greasy crap.

[Mater]

hmm from working at the dealer only remeber seeing them on the lincolns and the convert stangs to help them ride better then the mustangs and t-birds

[milner351]

Before Matt and I got the falcon off the trailer I spent a few bucks at the car wash to defunkify the car... and there's still plenty of funk.

some simple green, left to soak, then the power washer should go a long way to making it less hazardous to work under this thing.

I'm going to pick up a needle de-scaler one of these days to help chip off the undercoating underneath the falcon - heat gun and putty knife work, but not quickly.

[STINEY]

Try wiping the majority of it off with a different cat.

Persians or Himilayans work nicely......but any will do in a pinch. Just change cats often for best results.

[Beagle]

There is a neighbor cat... and I thought about it. Frozen cat makes a fine toilet scrubber. But... after seeing the lady that owns the cat, I can't do it. She's, well, she walks the damn cat. The cat loves her. She's kinda special, if you get me. I would not intentionally cause her any kitty problems.

The other f*ing thing in my back yard? Probably needs to be power washed. Too bad the car won't scrape frame any more.

I'm finally (only 3.5 weeks late) ready to pull the 302/aod in one reasonably unmolested piece. At least the engine harness survived my drunken die grinder/wire cutter bit. :)

[bishir]

I'm going to pick up a needle de-scaler one of these days to help chip off the undercoating underneath the falcon - heat gun and putty knife work, but not quickly.

Whoa, I didn't even know there was such a thing as a "needle descaler." Sweet!


http://www.cleanvideosearch.com/media/action/yt/watch?videoId=Xha4xY-dMrQ

[Beagle]

this car was originally planned to be a 2500.00 budget and it would have been close. It could have made it. You guys ragging me over the pathetic truck motor compression... which I had planned on correcting with an HX55 clone .75 kg/s turbo. Well, I'm running out of time to go that route and I can't sleep at night now.


http://bfevansraceparts.com/images/M6049SCJA.jpg

1700.00 for a set of heads. Probably an instant 100 hp or more. Bastids! It could still get in under 5000.00 with these. They are keeping me up at night. 72 cc , aluminum (probably 70 pounds saved), good chamber, I'm coming up with 10.68:1 with zero deck. Of course, that means new cam, and I'm thinking small solid, like a comp 282.

M6049SCJA
http://bfevansraceparts.com/FordRacing.aspx

BBR - is that Lem or Charlie Evans?

Cam - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-354561/ for a hydraulic, sims out about the same as the Comp solid. I'm leaning towards the solid, I think it will actually idle better.

/and a bigger converter and more carb and porting the intake and rocker arms and pushrods and 3.73's and now it needs an o/d and ... gawd. Thanks. Really. lmao.

[Russell]

Lol you should have left the 302 in it added slicks and a 200 shot! I see you have fallen off the slipper slope :yes:

[SuperBuickGuy]

snicker, project creep

why not ditch the entire frame and go with a tube chassis? maybe 25.3 cert?

[Beagle]

I'd really like to get into what I think of as a "jacket class" and while I would never expect to place, I'd like to at least be able to taunt Randal or James. lol.

BBR's 122mph trap speed is haunting me. The AOD behind the 302 would barf on a 50hp hit, a C4 would need to be built. It'd need all of this head and still maybe Naaawwwss, both Randal and James have sexy aluminum heads. I'll be like the little kid trying to tag along but riding a Schwinn Stingray with chrome fenders, when everyone else has Mongeese!

focus... must stay focused. Bastids... Iceholes. lmao@self.

[Bob Holmes]

:stirpot:



:laugh:

[TheSilverBuick]

The way you are gutting your car, my slow junk might not have a chance!

[BBR]

Lem works at BF Evans. Charlie has a machine shop and builds some nice stuff.

Those scja's are saweet. They are what I really wanted when I found my Trick Flows.

Come join us in the BB/NA class!!! Don't worry about my trap. The way my luck runs, it won't make it the whole week!!

[SuperBuickGuy]

I'd really like to get into what I think of as a "jacket class" and while I would never expect to place, I'd like to at least be able to taunt Randal or James. lol.

BBR's 122mph trap speed is haunting me. The AOD behind the 302 would barf on a 50hp hit, a C4 would need to be built. It'd need all of this head and still maybe Naaawwwss, both Randal and James have sexy aluminum heads. I'll be like the little kid trying to tag along but riding a Schwinn Stingray with chrome fenders, when everyone else has Mongeese!

focus... must stay focused. Bastids... Iceholes. lmao@self.
ya know, with the amount you're going to spend, an 6.0 LS would help you in a variety of ways :)

[Beagle]

ya know, with the amount you're going to spend, an 6.0 LS would help you in a variety of ways :)
a 6.0 won't make well over 550 pounds of torque, have H Beams and forged Ross pistons for 1040.00 either. I'm not very far into my wallet until (if) I pull the trigger on the heads.. I'd port the DoVE's I picked up for 125 and other than the 460 needing a diet, Mr. LS would have it's hand more than full. The reason for the shiny bits is time. If we break it down, the turd motor should be about 350-375 with the parts it's got, and that's

400.00 engine with C6 - good luck finding a usable 6.0 AND 500hp capable trans for that
(25.00 porting instructions, heads should go 300+/160 cfm maybe 180 exhaust. I'm not putting my "book" in the budget and I'm not addicted to flow numbers.)
440.00 H beam rods
200.00 Ross 4.39 forged piston, 16cc dish ... try THAT on your LS? :) :) Just a little old .030 bore.
20.00 NEW Blue Racer cam (I still want to use this and the D3's just because)
135.00 Torker ii
110 3310 Holley brand new ebay deal, really need a DP I guess but hell, it's a truck motor.
185 overbore, block prep, freeze plugs and cam bearings
50.00 lifters
50.00 gasket set
____________________
1590

I know, I know... the mighty LS is 500 hp with a cam (300 cam and 300 springs and 180 pushrods and 400 carb intake and at least 110 for a carb and then what to do with the ignition, or an expensive LS6 manifilold and bigger injectors and MS and plane ticket for Scott to tune it and given our past, massive sucking up on my part... if that would even work. :) very big grin.)

No offense to the almighty LS, but I don't think I could do this any cheaper. I wouldn't give up the 90 cubes worth of torque for something this heavy.

Honestly, the heads and new cam etc would put the big Ford on top of the same money into the LS.

I'd have to buy headers either way, 300-600, probably a pan, I know I did for the Ford. 160 because I was lazy and that was new with pickup, studs, gaskets. You can use a Van pan I've been told here (Stiney I think?) but time is a problem for me. I'm concerned about the fuel pump but I think I can dead head the EFI pump and have it feed a mechanical.

The C6 will put up with anything I have with a dirt cheap re-clutch and 250.00 tow truck converter. There is a 337.50 turbo laying on the floor, I should stop being a puss and go that way. The airflow on it is good for 990 hp by my math (which has been known to be wrong). Add for 75# injectors, 1000 cfm TB, big fuel pump, and MS. I have all the sensors I would need I think. It would only be 2 bar max.

'sides that, how many BBF Mark Vii's have you ever seen? Grin.

[SuperBuickGuy]

yeah, but how often do you get the chance to irritate Mr. Speedy?

[Bob Holmes]

yeah, but how often do you get the chance to irritate Mr. Speedy?

By the way, the tag line is ..."priceless".

[Beagle]

I came home from the casino today with 300.00 more than I went in with. I should have stopped when I was 850 up, would have been half way there. :(

paid for the headers anyway! :)

[milner351]

NICE! I stay away from those places for the most part - I don't have your kind of luck!

[Beagle]

I usually lose my a$$ , it's a once or twice a year thing where I take a few hundred bucks and if I lose, I leave. Sometimes I win, and sometimes I'm drug out of the place by the MUCH smarter Monica while I still have any winnings. :)

If we entertain the new heads idea, the cam I have is way wrong. It would make good cylinder pressure at 9:1 but at over 10.5:1, so very wrong. I am thinking something 240ish at .050 to keep pressures reasonable for pump gas. This looks kinda like what I want -

243/251 @ .050
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .608/.611
LSA: 102
RPM Range: 3000-6500

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2317&gid=284

more gear and more converter than I currently have. The 282s Comp solid looks to make too much cranking compression maybe, but is closer to the stuff I already have (2500 stall, 3.27 gear).

Thoughts?

What I think I want is between a 282s and 294s Solid Comp - do you think they will grind me one that size? One is 236* and the other is 248*. I need "just right"... lol.

[SuperBuickGuy]

6.0 LS with a Turbo... scrap the 460, they'll make it into two Hondas

[Beagle]

I'd drink bleach first... any other thoughts? lol.

[Beagle]

http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp220/DFA_Beagle/101_0082.jpg

Shiny parts showed up today - this and the rack showed up while I was out of town. 135.00 here... much better than the original Torker I had for it. I'll show the port size difference later. Yay!

[SuperBuickGuy]

I'd drink bleach first... any other thoughts? lol.

I'm not sure bleach is strong enough to cleanse you from being a FoMoCo worshipper :)

but pretty new parts :)

[Bob Holmes]

I'm not sure bleach is strong enough to cleanse you from being a FoMoCo worshipper :)

but pretty new parts :)

True dat, next thing you know you'll be whining about how the magazine industrial complex screwed you out of a place at drag week due to your lack of attention. :wink::ha:

[Beagle]

That is a USED part! I'm pretty happy with it. :)

I can't read anyway, I just look at the pictures. That's why I subscribe to Playboy. I used to like Penthouse until they went scratch and sniff. Sorry, bad joke. I opened that thing, in it's original box, and 10 minutes later was asking "why does the living room smell like gas?" - it's that clean, but it's still a used part and my dumbass didn't register it.

Monsoon season has started. Dad had the brilliant idea that I should clean the garage so I could work inside. Dang, he's smart. :)

[SuperBuickGuy]

True dat, next thing you know you'll be whining about how the magazine industrial complex screwed you out of a place at drag week due to your lack of attention. :wink::ha:

I could whine, but I'm just a country bumpkin to Speedy's cheese and whine.

Beags, whatcha doing listening to your dad on any other day then father's day? But even more importantly, tell me about these terrible monsoons they have in Texas.... really :)

[Beagle]

Folks from Seattle consider a solid rain what we consider a sprinkle?

[SuperBuickGuy]

we really are wimps when it comes to rain - city shuts down, people stay home watching the weather channel. Pretty pathetic if you ask me :)

[BBR]

We've had a rainy weekend here too. Sucks for us driveway hot rodders.

Nice intake dude! Now put on your slicker, and get out there and get to work! haha Time is slippin by fast!

[Beagle]

Roger that. I pulled the other head out of the parts cleaner today and fought the (2 year old gas in the ) pressure washer for a while. Good grief, new old gas smells worse than I remember. I am on the fence with the milling thing I dropped off in the tech section earlier. I straight edged these things and they are pretty good. I need to spend a few minutes of intimacy with the grinder making head 1 look like head 2 as I got a little friendlier with head 2's intake ports based on some last minute reading.

Car waits, impatiently, and I need to order a wiring harness from Painless. :(

I pulled the block out from under the table and will bathe it this week and start lower assembly checking. How many times do you have to put them together, measure, take them for a ride, then put them back together, measure, take them apart again? lol.

[STINEY]

How many times do you have to put them together, measure, take them for a ride, then put them back together, measure, take them apart again? lol.

Once.

Then either enjoy over and over............... or get out the broom and dustpan! If broom/dustpan are not required then obviously not enough gunpowder was used, this can be rectified with engine #2.....

[milner351]

Before you order from painless - check out rebelwire - I went with them for the falcon - obviously not installed yet - but their prices are way way better, I called before placing the order and got one of the owners on the phone.... not some headset flunky.

[STINEY]

x2 on the Rebelwire.

I haven't ordered from them, but I have done the price comparison thing. Painless is way towards the top of the price chain, and there are a bunch of competitors with lower pricing.

[Beagle]

Rebelwire - check. Their prices look doable... it doesn't need much in terms of wiring. The 9+3 should do it. Thanks guys!

[Beagle]

order showed up from Speedway today. 30.00 steering wheel.. 17" , should work great with the BBF on manual steering. lol. Told you guys I was building a truck! I went ahead and bought cats for it too. They do a visual here. 44.00 apiece for 2.5" cats seemed okay to stay vaguely legal. I'll flange the h-pipe so it comes out at the track with not too much work.

http://static.speedwaymotors.com/RS/SR/Product/60409022_L.jpg\

oooh stylin. Putting the Mustang style airbag for sale, maybe it'll pay for the steering wheel. :)

[BBR]

What kind of airbag? I have 2 3" "cats" I'll swap ya that were on the ranger. Guaranteed to pass visual!!! At least in amarillo

[Beagle]

90-93 style I think is when they used them? The 90 lost tilt wheel over it. Looks like this, I'll go out and verify in a bit:

http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/m/mziVNMSzPQWFY7QiX9GPwUw/140.jpg

I think it's tan...

My guy in San Antonio is starting to get to me, he's draggin his feet on the Hookers.

[BBR]

I was thinking a suspension air bag, like the kind you use to launch straight!! Lol iFail..

[Beagle]

AH!

I have a couple of Arnott bags from '05 I think, from the rear... they're pretty good, still pretty pliable. It was the compressor that was weak. Dang, I should post earlier, I was just there, could have swung the cats for the bags?

[BBR]

If you want them, you can haz.

[Beagle]

Likewise, if you want the back bags... rather keep them in the BS family! Solenoids are good, the airline is 1/8 iirc. Pushlocks, small compressor, make the four-eye into a 1 ton?

I don't think it will need more than the 2.5" junk this go round. I'm still thinking about running them to the back and flanging an x-pipe, weight be damned. I have some turns I picked up for another project to put them over the axle. The H or X from the collector to just before the axles would come off at the track pretty easily. I'm not a big drone fan. :)

I'm also thinking stereo solutions, a MP3 setup / box / amp that can be removed. Drone reduction. grin. Monica likes the same kind of music I do so it would be cool for that 400 mile leg, but then again she doesn't whine about the truck's drone and crappy stereo, so I guess we're okay there.

Jacked with heads today again, intakes on head 1 need a bit of attention to match them up with 2, and I'm not happy with the short turn on either set of exhausts. They have sharp corners from entry angles at either end that are ... well, they're pissing me off because there is no easy way to get to them. I'm gonna have to call this game pretty quick. They'll do okay I guess, definitely light years beyond as delivered. You have to stop somewhere? Time is slipping away.

[TheSilverBuick]

Likewise, if you want the back bags... rather keep them in the BS family! Solenoids are good, the airline is 1/8 iirc. Pushlocks, small compressor, make the four-eye into a 1 ton?


:laugh:

[Beagle]

With the mood I just got put into by the City of Lewisville, who is good for anonymous conversations ... and having it hidden from me until it was too late today to even discuss it with them, I'm not sure this guy is going to make it. Pissed - f*ing pissed - is an understatement.

/edit - still pissed, on many levels. We may see plan Z first.

[SuperBuickGuy]

ut oh.... I have some spare dynamite that I didn't use on the dealership - maybe that'd help?

[Beagle]

still pissed ... it's supposed to turn into reason overnight. My fault for still living in this city. I'll order a car cover but I think just to get some breathing room from these clowns, I'll move it to location X. What's pissing me off is they have to stand in the bed of a truck to get pictures of stuff they don't like but can't see otherwise in my back yard. Who cares if I have 14 motorcycles under a tarp? They do. Clearly, all residents peer into other residents back yards while having somebody else drive them down an alley, standing in the back of a pickup truck.

[Beagle]

Find sanity from stupidity. I planned a giant move this weekend, everything to location X. No 26' trucks are available today, but I can have one first thing in the morning. What to do in the meantime? Let's not get rid of parts, lets buy more... CRAIGLIST!

Found (and bought) a TR 3550 for 850.00 with a Lakewood bellhousing that'll fit a Windsor / Cleveland / 385, shifter, and mount. YES.

This one may have to sideline for a bit. BBF/5 speed -> smaller fox. I can get tags on the '90 and they can't say sh*t. Sad for kitty killer, yay for Notch!

[SuperBuickGuy]

My dad has neighbors like that. He lives against a private airstrip, so everyone can see everyone's back yard. Of course, that's a problem since he had 40 something cars in the back field. So he put up a fence (cyclone) with slats. I said "dumb" because his neighbors live above him and can easily see over his fence.... that said, he cleaned up his field (registered, etc), but won't do my suggestion. He should paint a wrecking yard on his fence facing the neighbors.... I totally get the middle finger salute, but being rude just gets more rudeness - that said, a wrecking yard painted by local graffiti artists painted on your fence would be wayyyyy cool... and if they give you grief, it's art - and freedom of expression.

still, dynamite is a lot more fun

[Beagle]

I'm finally over my crying and whining (mostly) and have taken on the garage as part of the giant move o junk to X. Assuming I get this pulled off correctly this weekend, I'll have a garage. I am going to anchor a D Ring to my floor and winch the car in and out of the garage as necessary, but if I'm real good, I won't have to. Motivation comes in funny forms sometimes. It's back on!

[Mater]

excelant

[Beagle]

Kitty killer is in the garage!! If it doesn't make it now, it's my own damn fault. lol. There's almost more room to walk in the garage with the fat car in there now than there was before, I guess it's all for a good cause. Pffft.

Aaron - the thought has crossed my mind. On the inside, for the nosy bastards viewing pleasure. HA!

[milner351]

no more weather delays! Rock on. hopefully there will be no vandalism/theft issues at location x.

[Beagle]

The rain is keeping me from taking the block to the machine shop to get decked this week! lol.. I was reading some other stuff that says turbo cars don't care much about quench? I'm looking into that, as I may not want to deck it if that's the case. It's square enough now, I'd only cut it to get the compression. Really, as low as it is already, it's not like it will require the quench to be perfect. It'd be about .055 as is, which I am led to believe is the hairy edge of being beneficial.

Have you guys heard this turbo / quench thing before? It's new to me. I've got a fairly big turbo (for a truck motor..haha) for part two of this fiasco... might as well save the money if it's not gonna care!

[Beagle]

school seems to be 50 - 50 on the quench. It'll never be a high rpm motor, these are ratty old heads. I'll get it cut. :)

Meanwhile, I was looking for bumper stickers insted of working, came up with this. One of my old bosses had a sticker like this on his office window, can you believe "they" made him take it down?
http://c.shld.net/rpx/i/s/pi/mp/1434/244796100p?src=http%3A%2F%2Fzeusd1.shopzeus.com%2F getimage.php%3Fsku%3Dzeusd1-BUAC-764125&d=0fc9e683feaca22e5e98cc3b7a9a1c0320edfddb


http://raddezigns.com/images/180x180_clear.png

http://raddezigns.com/images/180x180_clear.png

[milner351]

wrap the block in plastic and take it to the machine shop - rain be damned.

[Mater]

that's what i do trash bags are awesome

[Bob Holmes]

There's a bit of controversy about quench and turbo's. Personally, I'd like to see it closer than 50-55. I'd be happy at 45.

There is some thought that tight quench may not be beneficial, however, that tends to be applied to max effort applications.

If the 50-55 saves you machine shop costs, then you might want to leave it alone. This is a driver, not a racecar.

[SuperBuickGuy]

The rain is keeping me from taking the block to the machine shop to get decked this week! lol.. I was reading some other stuff that says turbo cars don't care much about quench? I'm looking into that, as I may not want to deck it if that's the case. It's square enough now, I'd only cut it to get the compression. Really, as low as it is already, it's not like it will require the quench to be perfect. It'd be about .055 as is, which I am led to believe is the hairy edge of being beneficial.

Have you guys heard this turbo / quench thing before? It's new to me. I've got a fairly big turbo (for a truck motor..haha) for part two of this fiasco... might as well save the money if it's not gonna care!


The hardest part about building a turbo motor - deciding where to draw the line. Seriously, come up with a power number you want, and build the motor to that hp number. I'm sure quench makes a difference at a certain dollar level.... errr hp level (same thing in my book)... but on a 5k build, I'm not certain there will be any benefit of quench.

Here's where the issue came up with the Buick motor. When you girdle the block, you can go to roughly 1100 hp on a stock block. However, at that level, all the other parts inside are the same as what you'd use for a 2200 hp motor... simply another 2500 (tomahawk block is 5k, but it's a savings of $2500 for machine work that won't need to be done) and a new tomahawk block and you're all set.... consider those words for a moment - simply another $2500...

The first motor, 700 hp with turbos that would support 2200 hp. When I build the 2200 hp motor, all the stuff I bolt to the outside will be the same, but I don't have a billet crank, custom pistons, custom rods, custom cam, custom lifters... you get the idea.


To be clear - my opinion is forget about quench and simply build the car. When you build a full tube chassis car, worry about quench.

[BBR]

So.... ya done yet?

[STINEY]

Instead of crickets chirping, I just hear "meeeeooooow!"

[Beagle]

I might have run into a snag. I was getting a table cleaned off to lay out the engine parts for assembly, and the oh so beautiful Ross pistons have what looks like might be a SCJ valve relief. They're way off the side of the piston, literally off the side of it. Does anyone know if it's a problem to run this with a standard head? I guess I should clay it up and find out.

Off to read the 460 boards.

[Beagle]

1000.00 oooooops. I have a couple of options...

old FMS crank, 521" stroker
4.300 throw with 2.500 journals , found one for 375.00
JE forged 39 cc pistons , 1.545 compression height 1.04 pin 800.00
These would work with the h-beam rods I already have but to get any kind of compression, I'd have to do the D0ve heads up. 9.7:1 with the 72cc chambered heads. The D3's would make a good turbo head on this, low 8's:1

that seems to make the most sense. I am mildly upset about the amount of hours (LOT) spent snorting iron dust if I go this direction.

or -

1700.00 SCJ heads, port the crap out of the manifold, cut and re-weld headers for SCJ flanges.

F is for frustrated. O is for Obtuse. R is for Redundant. D is for Dumbass.

[TheSilverBuick]

Yup.

[Beagle]

I just did some reading, and it's not as bad as I thought. From the compression height I chose (1.545) I have a choice of JE pistons... if I let it go down to 1.525 I can get forged Probes and they are a lot less expesnsive, like 520.00 v. 800-850 and they are cut for both SCJ and production valve reliefs. The guys on 460ford.com indicate you can cut the deck up to .100 (?!) and still have plenty of strength so that opens it up to a lot more choices.

that'd make the extra 55 cubes 895.00, I guess it's not the end of the world, just the end of my budget. Lol. Daaaahmmmmit.

[Bob Holmes]

The important part of a turbo piston is the thickness of the crown and how far the compression ring is from the top of the piston. Don't buy an NA piston for a turbo application, unless you only plan to blow on it softly. (Very few people have the discipline to blow on it softly once they've sucked on the turbo crack pipe)

I prefer to keep the pin out of the oil ring, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

However, I've been known to throw whatever I've got in the used piston bucket into a street build. The Red Furd has a bunch of used parts, and I'll blow about 18psi max on it. Tune up is critical.

There was a very interesting and surprising post on Speedtalk. Darin Morgan (Pro Mod, Pro Stock all around head porting god) stated that they left the piston as low as .250 in the hole in order to get to the CR that they wanted. I'm a little stunned.

[Beagle]

I think I read that post Bob. Seems to be a lot of argument, I'm not gonna get real hung up on it. When (if) the turbo ever gets put on it, 7 pounds will start showing other weak spots like breaking the rest of the car I think.

The ring package on this is probably about the same as a 350 chevy. The compression height is about the same, although the pin is a bit bigger. The oil ring shouldn't be anywhere near the pin. :)

I'm mildly okay with the 521" deal. Compression comes in at a little over 9.3:1 which I think will be okay with iron heads and premium. A couple of points higher (like 11.31:1) with 72cc heads that I may or may not do later. The rest of the parts I already have will work good with the low compression iron head deal.

How much is mallory metal? From what I read the bigger pins on the FMS crank (2.5 v. 2.2 chevy size) might need heavy metal to balance.

[milner351]

Mallory metal is stupid expensive - call the crank shop before you proceed. I was able to do a cheap balance job using average weight of the piston/rod set of 8 and only having to drill the crank counterweights, no added metal required.

[Beagle]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-RACING-521-STROKER-KIT-FOR-429-460-/200675062737?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2eb92a73d1&vxp=mtr

1200.00 for a forged piston h-beam 521" kit. I thought about just getting the pistons and crank from it, but the pins on these pistons are .990 and my rods are 1.040. I need to give Probe a call and see what they would charge to do a set with the bigger pin I guess. I kind of like the pistons having both notches cut already.

On the other hand, the dirtball part of me is saying "just cut new reliefs in the ones you have"

[milner351]

Do you have a good local machine shop? Worth a call to them to look over your options - they may come up with additional options you didn't know you had.

[BBR]

Mark Oneal is on the bullet and 460ford. Should be fairly easy to get ahold of. He might even have a similar deal.

[Beagle]

good point James, it's worth asking. As Belushi once said "It don't cost nuthin"

:)

[STINEY]

Any action on the home front? I need a "Kitty" fix.

[Beagle]

until I get the title figured out, this one is taking a catnap. :(

I guess it can be a trailer queen still getting a bbf, and shoved out of the way for goofy mustang DW under 5k car. I'm kinda bumming, but that means I can snort iron dust from the D0ve heads this winter, get a bigger cam, and run meth spray at almost 11:1. Pooor kitty killer.

[Mater]

ever thought of applying for a state issued vin and title?

[Beagle]

bonded title costs more than the car is worth - and it's sad because this turd is a ton better than the the white muttstang.

[Mater]

really? last time i did it here in michigan it did not cost that much. biggest pain was the police having to take posetion of the car to go over all the parts to make sure none of them where reported stolen

[Beagle]

it's in the pipeline - this car is in MUCH better condition than the white car. I still wanna do it.

Here's a tidbit of information for the Fox guys I didn't know. LSC's have truly adjustable transmission crossmembers, they have a bolt that anchors it on the ends and a channel to slide back and forth. Rubber insulation pads. No wonder this thing weights so much more than a Mustang.