Bench build me this

**Tom Slick** · December 7, 2010, 03:59 AM

Re: Bench build me this

Take a look at the classifieds for local mustang clubs, craigslist, etc. I literally find e7's in Craigslist for free every now and then.

http://www.diyporting.com/E7OV.html

If you are Joe Sherman, 350 at the wheels with a 5 speed might be doable with ported stock heads on a 302, but I'd not set my hopes any where near that. 300 is a lofty goal rwhp with E7's or GT40 / GT40p's. Remember you are asking for over 400 hp from heads that Ford put in everything from Mustangs to LTD's and F150's. I think '85 was the first roller block, but can't remember exactly.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/engine/28898_400_hp_302_small_block/index.html

The 351 stands a better chance, but is a larger investment in parts. I'm guessing you don't want to spend a lot or the first words out of your mouth would be aftermarket heads... ;D

Let's see what this comment gets - a B303 will be lopey.

I don't think you can go terribly wrong with anything but max effort using a RPM Air gap. I was expecting Min301 to redirect to the CC article from about 7 years ago where they made 400 at the crank with one and a set of AFR165's. That's still a ways from 350 at the ground, but damn respectable for a 302 with a stock roller cam, and not the same price as a 400 horse crate motor.

The Mustang boys seem to really like the TFS Stage 1, you can find sound clips on youtube. It's a little rumpity if that's all you're looking for. Check P to V clearance with either.

I'd lower your HP expectations by a bunch, but do it anyway. Decent tutorial:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PDFs/Head%20Porting%20DIY%20by%20Standard%20Abrasives.pdf

The surprise will the cost of the carbide cutters, and grinding cast iron SUCKS, but everyone should do it once. *WEAR SAFETY GLASSES*

Don't spend anything for the the heads if you can avoid it. Find some junkers to practice on. A decent 1/4 inch grinder and a carbide bit are an angry combination and it's really easy to make it "chatter" and break a bit. A Dremel aint gonna do it. It's a lot of labor, so I'd say do a little to every port at a time instead of a lot to one port and then try to duplicate the others. It's very messy, the comments about doing it in a box to keep the metal shavings somewhat under control is a good idea. That shit goes everywhere. On the floor, on your clothes. In your eyes, up your nose.

we will, of course, want pictures.

A 3.0 inch stroke is pretty short - to make a bunch of compression needs tiny chambered heads or domes. Current heads are normally around 60cc. The 87 up 302's with forged pistons had dishes and valve reliefs, and come in around 8.5 - 9:1 which is fine with pump gas. The 86 only flat tops will not play nice with other year heads and either of the cams mentioned without machining valve reliefs. The 86 heads (E6) are a one year deal and I'm not sure I'd mess with them. They put truck heads on the '87 (E7) and picked up 25 hp... should tell you something right there.

When it's all said and done, you'll get an appreciation for why professional porting costs so much.

I recommend it for experience but when you are really serious about the 400 at the ground NA, it's gonna take more displacement and good heads. Take a look at Matt King's article:

Customer Gallery | Magazine Articles | Videos | Social Feed

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article087/A-P1.htm

View all of AFR's Media content from customer images to magazine articles. Submit your own images and videos for a chance to be featured on our website & facebook.

Good luck, and post pictures!

**1988montecarloss** · December 7, 2010, 09:35 AM

Re: Bench build me this

there are foxes with 350-370rwhp running mid-high 10's in the 1/4.

if you were just looking for a fun street car, 300rwhp would be more than enough, and attainable with a GT40/P headed 302.

there are guys running 11's in full-weight foxes with GT40's. its not just as easy as bolting the heads on and driving to the strip and running 11's, but it can be done.

**1trickpony** · December 7, 2010, 09:57 AM

Re: Bench build me this

Thanks tom for your input... The reasoning behind not just sticking with afr's is a.) I want to learn some cheap hp tricks and saying I Did the work means something to me b.) Right now that money will be going else where.
I have read the CC article about the afr 165 jumping up to 400 at the crank. Kinda impressive stuff.
Also a little familiar with the diy porting site and that will be my master copy as a how to guide. Its the most informative one I have found yet.

1988 monte... You kinda hit the nail on the head.. But I am not planning on taking this car to the track at all so thats why I was using hp references but you probably understood what I want to do.

The current motor I believe is a low 8.3:1 compression 302 ( I think) 175 hp??? 215 tq???
I think with ported gt40's rpm2 intake 650 carb and an alphabet cam I should be to the extent of what I can do on the cheap side to get to my goal...
I might need to lower my goal I think to 300 to the wheels would be a realistic goal that I would be happy with.

The sealed power rebuild kit I looked at from summit was saying 10.3 comp for 52cc heads and I believe the gt40s are 58 59cc
Will this raise my compression ratio much?
will It be streetable at 10:1 or 10.5:1 compression with 91 92 octane?
Thanks for the input

**1988montecarloss** · December 7, 2010, 10:19 AM

Re: Bench build me this

Originally posted by 1trickpony

1988 monte... You kinda hit the nail on the head.. But I am not planning on taking this car to the track at all so thats why I was using hp references but you probably understood what I want to do.

The current motor I believe is a low 8.3:1 compression 302 ( I think) 175 hp??? 215 tq???
I think with ported gt40's rpm2 intake 650 carb and an alphabet cam I should be to the extent of what I can do on the cheap side to get to my goal...
I might need to lower my goal I think to 300 to the wheels would be a realistic goal that I would be happy with.

The sealed power rebuild kit I looked at from summit was saying 10.3 comp for 52cc heads and I believe the gt40s are 58 59cc
Will this raise my compression ratio much?
will It be streetable at 10:1 or 10.5:1 compression with 91 92 octane?
Thanks for the input

10-10.5:1 comp ratio can be done with pump gas, but you can use this compression calculator to get a better idea of what the comp. ratio will be. you have to know every parameter though because even something as small as head gasket thickness can change the comp. ratio considerably

Engine Compression Ratio (CR) Calculator

http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html

This calculator is designed to show the different Compression Ratios for different sized engines.

and youd be better off using a newer cam design than the alphabet cams, they do work and there are a lot of fast cars out there with them, but a newer trick flow or comp cam etc. etc. would perform better for not much more $$$

there is a TON of good info on corral.net if you havent been over there yet too

**squirrel** · December 7, 2010, 10:22 AM

Re: Bench build me this

Run a stock motor, put a Paxton type blower on it. EFI makes it run good and is nicer than having to deal with a carb. Carbs work good for roots blowers, but the centrifugal would probably work out better for the kind of car you're building, and efi seems to be eaiser to deal with for that type of blower. Although you could look into a blow thru carb, but I'd shy away from having to deal with pressurized carb leaks on something that you want to put a lot of miles on.

Although you could build a nice motor for the blower, with a forged bottom end, and you could put some good heads on it if you have the money. The neat thing is you won't have to set it up to run high rpm, so it should live forever.

**Barry Donovan** · December 7, 2010, 10:35 AM

Re: Bench build me this

the standard abrasives kit canlt use a dremel type? is there an adapter for 1/8th to quarter?

I resorted to a dimaond cutting wheel carefully used on titanium heads as a grinder (kinda sideways back nad forth) .. those grinding bits were ridiculous. The dremel type is very small, get into hard spots to reach.

if you are cheaping to a bigger engine.. small chambers heads at junk yard, and a 9 to 9.5 to start with.. get it into the higher compression and quibble about cams...don't forget bigger oil.

the lopey cams are crap without 10+ to 1...

it seems as though 300 was done with the small chambers being the biggest kicker..and oil got important real fast.

**milner351** · December 7, 2010, 12:02 PM

Re: Bench build me this

Run one of the "alphabet" cams (E303 or F303 I'd guess for your application) which were designed to make the most of the E7 castings, which will be on the 90's 302 you buy - make DAMNED sure it's an HO - if the seller won't let you pull the heads to verify the bore size and the presence of trw forged pistons.... don't buy it.

I have an extra 302 'cuz the first roller engine I bought "ready to drop in and go" for $300 did in fact have a B303 cam, but ufortunately - it had NON HO cast dished pistons. >

There's a great website who's name escapes me - that shows excellent detail on how to make the most of the E7 casting with porting techniques you can do at home.

The rest is basic engine building - there are LOTs of books on rebuilding small block fords - look at several and buy the one you like best. Talk to folks to find the best most reasonable local machine shop - and hope you can get away with re-using the factory forged pistons, new pistons will kill a budget build fast.

Northern and other places have really great deals on rebuild kits.

You should be able to use your existing distributor.
Used headers are easy to find.
used intakes are easy to find.
1850 holleys and 600 edelbrocks are easy to find.
off road H pipe
you're there!

TC · December 7, 2010, 12:25 PM

Re: Bench build me this

Ya that what I thought, that the later 5.0's had forged pistons. I would definitely go with one of those, but build the motor to make about 350hp and then throw a 150 shot on it. The engine will be great to drive around on the street and should have good idle quality, plus get good gas mileage. And the 150 shot makes it fun!!!!!!

**1988montecarloss** · December 7, 2010, 01:24 PM

Re: Bench build me this

Originally posted by milner351

Run one of the "alphabet" cams (E303 or F303 I'd guess for your application) which were designed to make the most of the E7 castings, which will be on the 90's 302 you buy

this is all true, and tbh there isnt anything necessarily wrong with the alphabet cams but the OP planned on using GT40's so i think a newer cam like the trick flow stage 1 or comp (max energy iirc) etc. would probably benefit him better :P

**milner351** · December 7, 2010, 01:49 PM

Re: Bench build me this

indeed - if he makes the jump to GT40s there are better cams than the 303s.

if I ever get the ranger going right - we'll know how far the X cam takes you on a budget build.

**SpiderGearsMan** · December 7, 2010, 02:16 PM

Re: Bench build me this

a 5.3 LS with a 50 shot

**realsteelfreak** · December 7, 2010, 02:30 PM

Re: Bench build me this

Make sure to use the right dist drive gear for the cam you use.
If you go to a 351w your headers will change along with the Fox body oil pan, but you do get the extra cubes.
Thats all I got

**mustang13** · December 7, 2010, 02:57 PM

Re: Bench build me this

An FYI for you, the engine I built new in 1994 for the 70 Mustang I just sold might be a good blueprint for you. I started with a "94" 351W Lightning short block (all 351W blocks are roller-cam ready 94 -up),SVO standard pressure oil pump, used steel GT 40 heads with 64cc chambers, 1.85, 1.55 valves, and home clean-up port job, compression was 8.8to1 with the factory dish slugs, I used an E-303 because of the shorter duration and tighter centerline overlap to keep from bleeding off any compression, 1.6 Crane Energizer rockers, a Weiand Steath intake, 750 cfm Holley, 1.5 primary tube haders with 14" merge collecters, and a full MSD ignition.

On 87 octane, using a Moroso power slide rule, adn my ET and MPH in the 1/4, it made 410hp at the crank.

9.5, or even better, 10 to1 compression, better flowing heads with a hotter cam would most likely put you right where you want to be.

The investment in using a 351W I thing is the way to go. Use a good seasoned salvage yard bottom end, buy the top end you want, and later down the road, as money permits, you will be all set for a 408-427 stroker package for big power.

**1988montecarloss** · December 7, 2010, 03:16 PM

Re: Bench build me this

Originally posted by mustang13

An FYI for you, the engine I built new in 1994 for the 70 Mustang I just sold might be a good blueprint for you. I started with a "94" 351W Lightning short block (all 351W blocks are roller-cam ready 94 -up),SVO standard pressure oil pump, used steel GT 40 heads with 64cc chambers, 1.85, 1.55 valves, and home clean-up port job, compression was 8.8to1 with the factory dish slugs, I used an E-303 because of the shorter duration and tighter centerline overlap to keep from bleeding off any compression, 1.6 Crane Energizer rockers, a Weiand Steath intake, 750 cfm Holley, 1.5 primary tube haders with 14" merge collecters, and a full MSD ignition.

On 87 octane, using a Moroso power slide rule, adn my ET and MPH in the 1/4, it made 410hp at the crank.

9.5, or even better, 10 to1 compression, better flowing heads with a hotter cam would most likely put you right where you want to be.

The investment in using a 351W I thing is the way to go. Use a good seasoned salvage yard bottom end, buy the top end you want, and later down the road, as money permits, you will be all set for a 408-427 stroker package for big power.

what did it run? thats making me almost think of putting a 351w in my fox haha

Bench build me this

Bench build me this

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment