Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

[horsewidower]

So I'm stuck at Grabaldi Racing/Englishrose Farm central with a case of pneumonia, and I'm bored out of my mind. I finally drug my butt out of bed (pun intended) and started through the local "200 channels and nothing on" satellite listings. We live out in the country and there isn't cable here. Not that its any better. And there was really nothing to watch so I started watching "How Things Work" an episode on making beer. As I sat there it struck me...or the oxygen deprivation paid off, you choose...here is a way to solve two problems that I have.

The racecar needs ethanol, and trying to find neat ethanol is very difficult. In fact damn near impossible. And pump E85, while a wonder fuel and abundantly available in my neck of the woods, is notoriously inconsistent in content. So how do I find a source of ethanol so that I can mix my own E85.

Englishrose Farm has horses, horses do two things well, they eat and they shit. And, on top of that, those that are kept in stalls have their stalls filled with pine shavings. We have to dispose of tons of horse shit and shavings every year. Usually we let it compost and then folks will line up to take it away. Otherwise we have to take it to the dump.

So, how about running a still and making my own neat alcohol?

[studemax]

Re: Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

Sugar makes better alcohol than poop.

[horsewidower]

Re: Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

Oh so true, Hahahha. But it ain't already paid for! ;D

[Thumpin455]

Re: Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

Why not? I do. The hardest part of making fuel is sourcing an enzyme that will convert starch to sugar so the yeast can eat it. The second hardest part is watching the temps so you get the right proof, dont kill the yeast during fermentation, and get it hot enough at the start to kill off any bugs that will compete with the yeast.

You have horses? Any cattle? Do you have a pond that takes runoff from the animals? Are there cattails in it if you have a pond? Are you aware that an acre of cattails can provide 1000 gallons or more of fuel? Did you know you have two ways to make methane and you can use that to boil water and distill alcohol? If you have a pond that takes runoff from the pens and it doesnt have cattails in it, stop using Roundup and find some in a ditch somewhere and grab the seed pod, it takes about a month to two months to get them big enough where you can harvest them for fuel. There are other plants you can use to make fuel, depends on where you are located and what grows well there. I do cattails because I live in a forest and the ground is filled with big freakin rocks.

Hydrous ethanol is easy to make. For about $90 you can build a 2" reflux column still out of copper, or you can build a 6" still from PVC if you use a divorced boiler, because the PVC doesnt like the heat from the boiler, but will handle the 173F- 212F temps needed to make ethanol. The 2" column will make between 2 and 5 gallons per hour, the 6" can make up to around 10 gallons per hour if you have a huge freakin 100+ gallon boiler. I use 55 gallon drums and plastic barrels.

If you are interested send me a PM and I'll shoot you my email and I would be more than happy to help get you started.

Now if its brilliance or delirium remains to be seen, but I sure do like having fuel for my cars that only costs me about $.40 a gallon to make. Yeah, forty cents. So far my total cost of the project is roughly $400.

[horsewidower]

Re: Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

How much more does it take to make anhydrous?

Isn't most of Brazil's hydrous? Is the hydrous more corrosive?

No pond, no cattails.

Do the alcohol cops hassle you.

I'll send a PM.

Bob

[pdub]

Re: Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

Right this second....and it won't last.....

I see that widower's post count is 1234.

Are the stars lined up?

[Thumpin455]

Re: Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

How much more does it take to make anhydrous?

You need a molecular sieve, common stuff is called zeolite and its rather pricey but reusable if you heat it to get the water out.

Isn't most of Brazil's hydrous? Is the hydrous more corrosive?

Quite a bit of theirs is hydrous, Im not sure how much and my friends in Brazil dont know for sure either. As for it being more corrosive, it depends on what its sitting in and how much water is in it. Bare untreated aluminum will just start to be pulled into suspension at around 180 proof, or 10% water. At 160 proof, or 20% water, you shouldnt run aluminum in the fuel system if the fuel will sit in it for a long period. I can get over 180 proof relatively easily with my still and thus far have had no problems with the Qjets I have modified to run ethanol. If its much under 150 proof it doesnt work so well as a fuel in an ignition engine. 10% water is a bunch, an entire gallon in a ten gallon tank.

Do the alcohol cops hassle you.

Nope, I am legal, but local ordinances and state laws different from place to place. Michigan just happens to be very favorable to making your own fuel. You need a permit from the TTB, it is Form 5110.74. I can get it for you if needed, otherwise you can search for it and find it pretty easily. http://www.ttb.gov/industrial/alcohol_fuel.shtml

You dont need to worry about a 'slug of water' in the lines either, because ethanol bonds to water rather than mixing with it. If you pour a gallon of anhydrous ethanol into a gallon of water you wont get two gallons out of it. It will be somewhere just over 1 3/4 gallons. Its rather difficult to separate them, thats why we need a still that takes advantage of the different boiling temperatures of water and ethanol.

Its fun stuff to learn. :D

[Junk Whisperer]

Re: Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

Bob,sit down,grab a Remote,turn on the T.V.,.....and watch some 'Curling'(see other thread...) ;D ;D! It'll make ya feel REALLLL good :D. ~J/W.

[Thumpin455]

Re: Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

Im also working on an ethanol only street engine, high compression, high dynamic compression, high velocity ports, and lots and lots of torque. 13:1+ 455 Pontiac..

[Barry Donovan]

Re: Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

hardly delirium. I would like to try some home made fuel.

My own car from a gas pump is getting very strange stuff...and in another thread here, mentioned pure diesel. Very nice thick black smoked diesel..odor included.

I then looked up maines so called 10% ethanol...how they get it , is a bit too trustworthy by the state. there is even mention of fermented wood.

to humor this, I need to go supercharge or tiny turbo...and this is after changing all rubber hoses, as recommended. Check your state fuel laws today!

I did learn something from this slop....a 9to1 carb piston and chamber is alot closer to a diesel as no one is admitting...it burns it perfectly. Holy cow. :

[Thumpin455]

Re: Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

Boxer, what I and many others have found is there is usually no need to change the hoses and lines in your car. If they are already compatible with both gasoline and ethanol they should be good to go for higher blends or even straight ethanol. If it needs replaced already due to wear or dry rot, then yeah change them out. Gasoline has many rubber and plastic products that are not compatible but are with ethanol, and there are a few that can stand both, and a few that can only stand gasoline. Most cars built since around 1983 have ethanol compatible fuel system parts already. That was about the time MTBE was outlawed as an additive, and ethanol does a much better job of raising the octane and providing lower emissions than pretty much anything else.

Now if you are talking methanol, which is sometimes made with wood but it mainly made with natural gas these days, then that is entirely different. It is VERY corrosive and needs specific fuel lines, tanks, pumps, etc that can take its corrosive nature. Additionally methanol requires a top end lube and its more than a good idea to flush the lines and carb before it sits for more than a few hours. Some people go to those lengths with ethanol, but so far a great many of us have found it unnecessary. The only non stock part in the fuel system on my 70 GTO is the electric pump I put on it when it was running gas. Its on there because the stock pumps wouldnt pull the gas from the back and it would run the bowls dry at the top of first. Works great with E85 and HE100.

Unfortunately most of what you find in searches and articles are often inaccurate or simply false for whatever reason. If you want to switch to ethanol and make some serious power, I can point you in the right direction.

[dieselgeek]

Re: Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

+10 to Todd for some really good info today!

Make sure you look us up when you get back to Huskerville,
-Scott

[IRONHEAD]

Re: Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

I believe mtbe was banned in 200? something,, (east coast)
we still had it .when I had my '89 grand mark.. and bought my '99 in 2003ish

my 86 monty SS rubber lines are not e10 safe nevermind e85 or straight...
but this does sound kool...
how much fuel can you get out of an Acher(sp?) of land (ballpark)

[truckpuller]

Re: Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

I have a friend that passed away, he had 2 stills that he made ethanol with in the early 80's with, they are probably for sale if anyone is interested. They are both pretty good sized.

[Thumpin455]

Re: Brillance or Oxygen Deprived Delirium

I believe mtbe was banned in 200? something,, (east coast)
we still had it .when I had my '89 grand mark.. and bought my '99 in 2003ish

my 86 monty SS rubber lines are not e10 safe nevermind e85 or straight...
but this does sound kool...
how much fuel can you get out of an Acher(sp?) of land (ballpark)

Yeah MTBE was in the 00s if I remember right, they tried to get it approved instead of ethanol that was mandated in the 80s in some fuels. My fingers dont always say everythign I mean, if they do I tend to write lengthy posts that everyone says TL;DR..

How much you can get out of an acre depends on a couple things. First where it is located because some plants do well in some climates that other plants cant live in. Second what you are planting there, because they all have different growth cycles, amounts of starch or sugar, and plants per acre varies.

With cattails it varies as to how much you can get from them. They have 6 times the starch thats in the same weight of potatoes, and taters can make about 22 gallons per ton. Cattails pull nitrates and other impurities out of the water that flows around them and they use it to make starch and a bit of cellulose to hold themselves up, in addition to using sunlight and CO2 for the same purpose. So while cleaning the water they grow much larger, faster, and thicker with even more starch in them. If they are growing outside a waste treatment plant, or in the runoff from a feed lot, they grow so fast and thick you can get around 10,000 gallons per acre. Corn does about 220-450 gallons per acre depending on yield, and corn needs some fertilizer not to mention plenty of room and good soil. Neither of which I have.

Other plants can do well, people in the southwest can pick up mesquite seed pods and make fuel from them. People in cities can get candy waste if they have a candy plant, almost pure sugar there. Or stale donuts and bread since that is all starch, and you can get that by the truck load in some places. It can all be made into fuel with a couple barrels, some heat, water and a still that is easy to build. What really matters for how much fuel you can get is how much starch or sugar you have to work with.

Diesel geek I'll let you know when I am headed home again, would be good to hang out with gearheads again.